Indivision AGA MK3 for A1200

Caution: Non registered users only see threads and messages in the currently selected language, which is determined by their browser. Please create an account and log in to see all content by default. This is a limitation of the forum software.


Also users that are not logged in can not create new threads. This is a, unfortunately needed, counter measure against spam. Please create an account and log in to start new threads.

Don't Panic. Please wash hands.
  • What's wrong with that? The computer is not yet started, and the flicker fixer shows it's OSD for a brief period. Also, the monitor appears to be set to stretch the picture somehow, as it does not display the whole picture. Make sure it's not in "movie mode" or similar - use the PC mode or 1:1 mode (some monitors call it this, others that...).

  • New core with a bug fix has been published today - no official release, as that's planned for tomorrow, together with a new config tool. I don't want to re-upload the binary, so please get it from the German part of this forum.


    This new core adds a plausibility check when it shifts timing, topping up safety of yesterday's update. Further, a bug in finding the right screenmode slot is fixed in this core.


    A new config tool wasn't finished today, because I requested to add one more automated thing from the EDID data, and I need to collect a few EDID blocks from monitors for that.


    Other features were not changed, so this core can be used with Config tool V1.2.

  • What's wrong with that? The computer is not yet started, and the flicker fixer shows it's OSD for a brief period. Also, the monitor appears to be set to stretch the picture somehow, as it does not display the whole picture. Make sure it's not in "movie mode" or similar - use the PC mode or 1:1 mode (some monitors call it this, others that...).

    Hi, Jens.

    Same happens when WB loads (it was set to DBLPal mode). Through the Amiga RGB => VGA (with a DB23 to DB15 converter) the image is just fine in the same monitor. Oversized WB through Indivision HDMI:

    https://i.imgur.com/fwJALOr.jpg

    This Dell is able to do Picture-By-Picture, so I did with the two inputs, Indivision HDMI and Amiga RGB=>VGA:

    https://i.imgur.com/2U9dTC9.jpg

    As for the monitor stretching the image, I've checked the settings and zoom is set to 0. The only setting I had was "Width Mode", so the monitor fills the screen if you want to avoid having two black columns at the sides of the image:

    https://i.imgur.com/lbmRIgi.jpg

    Anyway, I have tried setting it to "Aspect" (stretches the image until it finds the first attribute, height or width, to reach the border, and sets the other one to the correct aspect ratio) and also setting it to "1:1" (no stretching at all), getting same result with both: Indivision logo or "live adjustment" OSD are still out of the screen. This image was did with "Width mode" set to "Aspect":

    https://i.imgur.com/7lqwrox.jpg


    This monitor can handle 15kHz modes too. This is v3.1.4 Early Startup menu at 15kHz:


    https://i.imgur.com/qtULac8.jpg


    and this one at 31kHz (pressing Return):


    https://i.imgur.com/4NG32mp.jpg


    Taking the data from my monitor manual and the resolutions it handles, I have also tried to create two custom VGA modes in the Indivision setup application, one for the HighGFX 1024x768 screenmode:


    https://i.imgur.com/hnJhpWh.jpg


    with the same result, Indivision logo still partially out of the screen:

    https://i.imgur.com/xEvC7F4.jpg

    even the Live Setting OSD is partially out of the screen:

    https://i.imgur.com/Ip3APwb.jpg

    And one for the Super72 SuperHires Laced 800x600 screenmode:


    https://i.imgur.com/TbFvmA4.jpg

    https://i.imgur.com/34krmzm.jpg


    and even if the Setup util displays it working correctly:


    https://i.imgur.com/1Cbco8r.jpg


    in this case, I have found no way to make the screemode to pick the correct VGA Indivision mode: as you can see, even if the test screen says it is displaying Super72: Super Hires Laced 800x600x5 screen, the Indivision logo says PAL 800x600 screenmode over a preset 800x600 VGA mode:


    https://i.imgur.com/n7j3D2q.jpg

    The only thing I have not tried is to disable the "PRE Pal: 800x600" mode in the Indivision Setup application.


    As you can see, it's not that I have not tried different things, but as I am new to Indivision, maybe there's something I'm overlooking? :/


    What do you think? Any help will be appreciated.


    Saluditos,


    Ferrán.

  • So it's gone from bad to worse for me. I got the relevant files onto my A1200 and halfway through doing the copy, the sreen just started to flicker really badly and the top got chopped off. I went back to the normal RGB output, flashed it to yesterdays core and rebooted, but it's still the same so it's now even less usable than it was. https://imgur.com/a/gQBv1vG


    Seems that the board moved a fraction, after powering off and reseating it it is OK now.


    Next question, how to enable the HDMI audio because playing Worms Directors Cut without sound is no fun whatsoever.

  • New core with a bug fix has been published today - no official release, as that's planned for tomorrow, together with a new config tool. I don't want to re-upload the binary, so please get it from the German part of this forum.

    Hi again, Jens.

    I just saw your post about the new core after I send mine with all the images. I have DL'ed the new core and flashed it to the board: no changes, Indivision logo OSD and Live setup OSD still partially out of the screen, no matter if computer/wb has loaded or not.

    BTW, I tried, just in case, to use the Rescue disk and reset the board. That's what I got:


    https://i.imgur.com/gE5fb3F.jpg


    so I have replaced the "firmware" file in the Rescue disk with the one released yesterday, 20200811.


    Saluditos,


    Ferrán.

  • Yeah so you tried 800x600 and 1024x768 both modes not native for the display resolution. Changing the Amiga screen modes will not help if they are mapped to the same VESA mode. You could try finding an "auto adjust" or something named like that in the menu of your monitor. But if it cuts off that much by default wouldn't really trust that will help.


    My suggestion is trying one of the detected EDID modes that match the native resolution of the panel (1920x1200@60 if I interpret the attached pictures correctly). Or you could try 1080p for HDMI/DVI as that is listed as supported in the documentation page you posted.

  • in this case, I have found no way to make the screemode to pick the correct VGA Indivision mode: as you can see, even if the test screen says it is displaying Super72: Super Hires Laced 800x600x5 screen, the Indivision logo says PAL 800x600 screenmode over a preset 800x600 VGA mode:

    Seems there is no matching slot for Super72. So it picks the standard PAL one instead. That won't work as the Super72 uses super-hires (while PAL is hires) and so you lose 1/2 of the pixels on the Amiga screen. You can't select VGA modes using the Amiga screenmodes directly. With the config tool you assign a VGA mode to a slot(s) that match the Amiga screen mode(s) you want to use. So it is a two step process. First select the VGA modes that your monitor support and assign them to config/mode slots in the AGA mk3 config tool. Then you can select your Amiga screenmode.


    But before you try a thousand and one different workbench screenmodes, first make sure you find a VGA/VESA/whatever mode that the monitor doesn't cut off. Then assign that to the various config/mode slots. As your monitor seems to be a bit brain-dead in handling VESA modes you can use the scaler in the AGA mk3 to resize the picture to make it fullscreen (or correct aspect ratio with some black bars whatever you prefer).

  • Yeah so you tried 800x600 and 1024x768 both modes not native for the display resolution. Changing the Amiga screen modes will not help if they are mapped to the same VESA mode. You could try finding an "auto adjust" or something named like that in the menu of your monitor. But if it cuts off that much by default wouldn't really trust that will help.


    My suggestion is trying one of the detected EDID modes that match the native resolution of the panel (1920x1200@60 if I interpret the attached pictures correctly). Or you could try 1080p for HDMI/DVI as that is listed as supported in the documentation page you posted.

    Yep, I tried because first time I switched on the Amiga with the Indivision installed I saw it was displaying (or trying to display) a 800x600 screen (at least according to Indivision OSD), so I tried to reproduce a custom one that had the setting listed in the monitor manual as one of the "right" modes, hoping that this "correct" mode would be of some help.

    And as for the Amiga screenmode, Super72 800x600, in fact it IS listed as one of the PRE modes in the Indi Setup tool, and that was my first try, both PRE 800x600, screenmode and Indi VGA. Since it didn't work with PRE modes, I made a custom Indi VGA mode and a new screenmode, injecting the screenmode from the requester, in the hope it would be recognized, but no luck either.

    Anyway, looks like a general symptom: every screenmode I have tried shows the Indi OSD partially out of the screen and the screenmode oversized, with some elements out of sight,

    Even if I want to use the Indivision with HDMI, someone has suggested me to try VGA output just to see what happens, and also a different HDMI cable (they can be picky), but I must say that the one I'm using I've used it before with the same monitor and a MBP without a single hickup. Also, I'll reset the monitor to its factory default settings, let's see if that makes any difference.

    I use this monitor because it can display 15kHz modes, has plenty of inputs (DisplayPort, 2 x DVI, HDMI, VGA, Composite and Component video) and Picture-By-Picture, so I can display my A1 and the A1200 side by side. The A1 (DVI) also has no problem showing different screen modes in it.

    I'll report back as soon as I have new info.

    Saluditos,


    Ferrán.

  • Even if I want to use the Indivision with HDMI, someone has suggested me to try VGA output just to see what happens, and also a different HDMI cable (they can be picky), but I must say that the one I'm using I've used it before with the same monitor and a MBP without a single hickup. Also, I'll reset the monitor to its factory default settings, let's see if that makes any difference.

    It is not the HDMI cable, a cable issue will result in either a black screen or random color blocks or something digital noise like that. You clearly have a stable picture. The monitor just decides cropping parts of it (for some mysterious reason).


    And as for the Amiga screenmode, Super72 800x600, in fact it IS listed as one of the PRE modes in the Indi Setup tool, and that was my first try, both PRE 800x600, screenmode and Indi VGA. Since it didn't work with PRE modes, I made a custom Indi VGA mode and a new screenmode, injecting the screenmode from the requester, in the hope it would be recognized, but no luck either.

    Is is enabled? You can enable and disable individual slots. Also PAL might be earlier in the list and if it matches as well (search is based on the number of scanlines the Amiga generates) it doesn't matter what slots comes after it. Changing the order of the slots can help with that. Or you can go the live-edit mode and press 'X' to cycle through all compatible slots for the current screenmode.


    Try to use or create a VGA mode in the config tool that matches the native resolution of your monitor (1920 by 1200 probably). Doesn't matter what the Amiga screen resolution is. Your monitor clearly wants a HDMI signal that matches its native resolution. And I'm sure it is a fine monitor for 15khz, but that is not the problem we are trying to solve here. So again try to select a VGA mode that matches the native resolution of your monitor.

  • It is not the HDMI cable, a cable issue will result in either a black screen or random color blocks or something digital noise like that. You clearly have a stable picture. The monitor just decides cropping parts of it (for some mysterious reason).


    Is is enabled? You can enable and disable individual slots. Also PAL might be earlier in the list and if it matches as well (search is based on the number of scanlines the Amiga generates) it doesn't matter what slots comes after it. Changing the order of the slots can help with that. Or you can go the live-edit mode and press 'X' to cycle through all compatible slots for the current screenmode.


    Try to use or create a VGA mode in the config tool that matches the native resolution of your monitor (1920 by 1200 probably). Doesn't matter what the Amiga screen resolution is. Your monitor clearly wants a HDMI signal that matches its native resolution. And I'm sure it is a fine monitor for 15khz, but that is not the problem we are trying to solve here. So again try to select a VGA mode that matches the native resolution of your monitor.

    Well, some news. As you correctly said, replacing the cable made no difference. What made a difference was switching to VGA output instead of HDMI, from VGA everything works as it should.

    With HDMI, I've tried setting "EDID 1920x1200@62" and "EDID 1600x1200@60" for screenmode "PRE 1024x768 HiGfx", but as soon as press "Test/Adjust" monitor goes into a vicious circle between going into Energy Saving mode and back to life for a second, like if it were trying to display something, but it never does, and back to Energy Saving, and on and on… The first Indi VGA mode that works is "EDID 1280x1024@60", but it still shows Indi OSD partially out of sight, as any other combination of VGA mode/screenmode I've tried, as long as it is through HDMI.

    BTW, is the 'X' key thing an undocumented feature of the "Live-edit" mode? It is not mentioned anywhere in the manual, AFAIK… ;)

    Tomorrow I'll try with a different monitor (Dell U2711) and maybe a TV screen with HDMI input, let's see what happens.

    Saluditos,


    Ferrán.

  • Let me just drop in here that Super72 may be a line or two off between Kick/WB 3.0 and 3.1, so our presets may be a bit tight on the number of lines for detection. Te mode may be mis-interpreted by the current settings if you have a slightly different version of the monitor files.


    Next, your description of the monitor not knowing it's own modes sounds very much like it can't handle HDMI signals, but requires DVI signals to work correctly. Please go to the "advanced" menu and tick the box "DVI mode".

  • What do you think? Any help will be appreciated.

    The best advice I can give is to read the documentation of the config tool. I really don't want to quote each and every part of your wall-of-text that indicates that you haven't even tried the config tool yet. Our Wiki is your friend. Please mind that the config tool was updated to V1.3 with the latest core today - in fact, a few minutes ago :-)


    It looks like you are using the default config, which uses a low resolution by default. Even if you don't have the config tool on your computer yet, did you try live config by pressing CTRL-lShift-Tilde and moving the mouse to make the upper left part visible?


    Further, please upload images to the forum - external hosters often add lots of advertising, or don't even work with Javascript diabled (which is my default setting for unknown/untrusted pages).

  • BTW, is the 'X' key thing an undocumented feature of the "Live-edit" mode? It is not mentioned anywhere in the manual, AFAIK… ;)

    Yes, the 'x' key thing is still undocumented, along with a few other keys.

    Since firmware 20200812 it works as intended. It will cycle through different active Indivision modes with the same match criteria; for example, it can allow you to switch between 640x512 PAL and 736x548 PAL VSync.


    Config tool 1.3 with firmware 20200812 is now available:

    http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Indivision_AGA_MK3/doc

  • BTW, is the 'X' key thing an undocumented feature of the "Live-edit" mode? It is not mentioned anywhere in the manual, AFAIK… ;)

    Yes, the 'x' key thing is still undocumented, along with a few other keys.

    Since firmware 20200812 it works as intended. It will cycle through different active Indivision modes with the same match criteria; for example, it can allow you to switch between 640x512 PAL and 736x548 PAL VSync.


    Config tool 1.3 with firmware 20200812 is now available:

    http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Indivision_AGA_MK3/doc

  • Sure, that'll work - the circuit board has additional mounting holes that will be useful for some bracket that you'll have to build.

    It doesnt seem to fit unless force is used to get it between the power input en composit output ;( , a cap also seems to be in the way, but this is easy to change. Only option is to make the print 1 mm thinner, but his voids warrenty i gues

  • Let me just drop in here that Super72 may be a line or two off between Kick/WB 3.0 and 3.1, so our presets may be a bit tight on the number of lines for detection. Te mode may be mis-interpreted by the current settings if you have a slightly different version of the monitor files.


    Next, your description of the monitor not knowing it's own modes sounds very much like it can't handle HDMI signals, but requires DVI signals to work correctly. Please go to the "advanced" menu and tick the box "DVI mode".

    Hi, Jens.

    I have tried the "DVI mode" thing and it solves the image problem, but at a cost: no sound. Trying to go back and restore sound had weird effects: first, the image seems to keep the correct proportions and view (all elements inside the screen) even with "DVI Mode" switched off (see OSD in the image), until you reboot;




    Second, sound does not work, at least not as it should. I have tried with the same MP3 player that worked before all these experiments. Now it sounds for 1 to 3 seconds, and you can still see the VUmeters working. If you pause and unpause, again you get sound for a couple of seconds, then mute (but the song is still being reproduced):

    https://youtu.be/JHyQ3v3WdZg

    No reboot will cure this, I have not tried a reflash.

    Would it be possible to have sound even with "DVI mode" on?

    Saluditos,


    Ferrán.

  • The best advice I can give is to read the documentation of the config tool. I really don't want to quote each and every part of your wall-of-text that indicates that you haven't even tried the config tool yet. Our Wiki is your friend. Please mind that the config tool was updated to V1.3 with the latest core today - in fact, a few minutes ago :-)


    It looks like you are using the default config, which uses a low resolution by default. Even if you don't have the config tool on your computer yet, did you try live config by pressing CTRL-lShift-Tilde and moving the mouse to make the upper left part visible?


    Further, please upload images to the forum - external hosters often add lots of advertising, or don't even work with Javascript diabled (which is my default setting for unknown/untrusted pages).

    Hi again, Jens.

    Yes, I have used the config tool, I have created VGA, modes, Test modes, to no avail. I have used the "Live edit" too, to no avail. That's what my "wall-of-text" says. BTW, the "Live edit" moves the WB/Amiga screen, not the OSD, and it is still partly out off the screen. Why? I don't know.

    For example, I've noticed that PRE screenmodes (Test modes) sometimes misidentify the correct mode, i.e,, the PRE mode says 800x600 but the mode selected as Test mode is 800x300. Is that OK?

    Saluditos,


    Ferrán.

  • I have tried the "DVI mode" thing and it solves the image problem, but at a cost: no sound.

    This pretty much confirms that your monitor can't handle sound over HDMI without HDCP. You must know that DVI is forward-compatible to HDMI, but HDMI is not backwards-compatible with DVI.


    On the technical side, audio is encoded into the video signal during the blanking periods. This means that the blanking periods (horizontal and vertical sync times) carry data, where they should be "really blank" during these times for DVI displays. As a result, DVI monitors either display a lot of garbage outside the normal picture, shifting the picture around in unpredictable ways, or they do not display any picture at all. We have a number of monitors that do exactly that - and all of them are only DVI monitors.


    There is a slight chance that CEC control may fix this. At this point, we don't have CEC implemented at all. We have a "nice-to-have list": Not a single feature on that list is confirmed for sales, so anything on that list must be seen as a free gift without any warranties. On that list is a command line tool that sends a short CEC message to the TV that says "I'm here, please switch to my input!", so the TV turns on and selects the HDMI source when you launch your computer.


    Please also note that Audio over HDMI is not an advertised feature - it is still regarded as "experimental" on our side, because the test-depth is low. You may also double-check if you are really using the HDMI input of the monitor (I can see that it has both DVI and HDMI inputs). It may only support sound on the native HDMI input.


    Next, I found that the Dell U2410 has a native sice of 1920x1200 pixels. Indivision AGA MK3 cannot serve that panel size in 60Hz, because that would require well over 190MHz pixel clock. Please note that 165MHz pixel clock is the maximum that our product can provide, so attempting to use that output size will not work. We have already improved the maximum pixel clock from 135MHz on the MK2/MK2cr version to 165MHz in the MK3 version, so you can now make use of full-HD panels. However, the panel you've chosen is beyond full-HD.


    Further, we've had reports from users who were trying to capture the video+audio with HDMI capture cards. Two out of two reported that their monitor will play back audio, but the capture device did not record any audio. One of them reported that the technical data of his capture device says that 44.1kHz is the only sample frequency it supports. At this point, we are generating audio at 48kHz, as that's a common rate for DVD playback. From the experience with capture devices, there's a chance that this Dell monitor can't deal with 48kHz audio and requires 44.1kHz to work properly.


    We may or may not change the output frequency of digital audio in the future, but let me emphasize again that audio is not an advertised feature.


    So at this point, I'm asking you to try a different monitor, as too many points hint at the one you've chosen is not suitable for a number of reasons. I'm happy to put a few things on the to-be-fixed-buglist, but we need to know if for example the interrupted audio is a property of your monitor, or if it's a bug in our Paula-emulation.