AGA MK3 black screen

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Don't Panic. Please wash hands.

    Hi,


    Just got my AGA MK3 today.

    Installed it and it worked nice until I downloaded the rescue disk from the WIKI and flashed the card with the latest(?) firmware that from what I understand is bundled with the rescue disk.


    I booted to the floppy and had picture on boot, it flashed the card but after reboot I have a black screen.

    So tried to boot from the rescue disk again, I got picture, it flashed and then black again.


    Is there a problem with the latest firmware, or is the default/factory config different on the rescue disk on the wiki than the one it shipped with(if the factory config it uses is not stored on the indivision it self that it)?


    What to do?

    Quote from nizce

    until I downloaded the rescue disk from the WIKI and flashed the card with the latest(?) firmware that from what I understand is bundled with the rescue disk.

    The rescue disk is not for "general use" - it's only meant to be used if something went wrong during flashing. Any updates and configuration settings are made with the config tool, which can generate an up-to-date rescue disk on it's own.


    Please do read the instructions in our Wiki. It's a complex product and surely requires some time until you get all the ideas behind the development decisions. Just performing an emergency action without knowing what it's really meant for won't give you the experience we've intended :-)


    Jens

    Thanks!

    I’ve read all of it(not saying I understand it all) now :)


    Have stumbled across two issues:


    1. Live config does not work:

    Pushing left shift + ctrl + tilde does not show the live config osd.

    I’ve removed the adapter on the U7 and reseated it, but no luck :(

    Any ideas what might be wrong or what to check for(the 3 buttons do function in Amiga os)


    2.in certain apps(ex ibrowse) the screen goes black for a short while and then the picture is back with the OSD in top left corner. Just like it thinks that the resolution or something has changed.

    Haven’t had the time to try it out more than yesterday evening, but will update with more detail as I test it some more.

    This sounds like the unit isn't pushed all the way down on Lisa, and possibly the CIA chip. The CIA adapter is so close to the keyboard adapter that you may only have pushed it down on one side- The OSD coming up every now and then means that the screen mode detection has found a change. This might point to either a contact problem, or a power problem, where contact problems are way more common. Please push the the unit all the way down, pressing with both your thumbs into the center of the Lisa socket where the ventilation holes are located. You should hear and feel it clicking down, and it should sit tight enough to lift the board on the flicker fixer after it's been pushed down properly.


    We do test each unit with the very CIA adapter and cable that it's shipped with, and it only gets it's warranty ID after it has passed all tests, which include bringing up the live config menu. Are you sure that the three keys really work? Do you maybe have a (USB?) keyboard adapter that doesn't support pressing several keys at the same time?


    Jens

    Hi!

    Thanks, I’ll try to push both down some more on the two PCBs. Reseated the one on the cia chip yesterday but will try again :)



    I con’t use any usb keyboard.

    I’ve tried the keys individually(left shift and tilde in text editor, and ctrl + c works to cancel commands in amigados.


    What's strange(I think) is that I have not yet experienced and flickering pixels/lines or drop-outs on Workbench except when using ibrowse. Could it be that ibrowse pushes the amiga/graphics to the max? I'll also try and run a taxing high-res demo if I find one and see if it also happens there


    Added a picture how I've installed it.

    Quote from nizce

    Could it be that ibrowse pushes the amiga/graphics to the max?

    No - iBrowse might open a separate screen, but nothing special to Indivision. As you may know, Indivision just supports everything that the AGA chipset can output, with only a single exception: The A2024 monitor type.


    If the problem is reproducable, please snap a picture of the upcoming OSD. Further, please set the additional debug info in the config tool, so the OSD shows one additional line.


    Jens

    Quote from Jens

    If the problem is reproducable, please snap a picture of the upcoming OSD. Further, please set the additional debug info in the config tool, so the OSD shows one additional line.


    Hi,


    It's reproducable, I've added a couple of pictures(please let me know if it helps if I upload a video of it) showing the OSD which pops up almost everytime I try to load a new webbpage after going black.

    I've also had the dropouts while unpacking LHA files in DosControl, that time it happened every time it puts up a new shell with the unpack progress info.

    So doesn't seem to be only ibrowse causing this.


    I've also attached my settings from the config tool if that helps.

    The VGA Mode is a copy of the EDID 1920x1080 mode.
    I've also tried to disable vsync and auto resolution.


    Data sheet for the monitor used is here(page 13 & 14), don't know if this is of use: https://dl.dell.com/manuals/al…_user%27s-guide_en-us.pdf


    Can't seem to find any obvious settings regarding how to enabling debug info for the OSD(looked in the WIKI also) :(

    Could you please help me point to where I can find it? And I'll upload a new set of pictures.
    I did also search this forum for debug, and it seems there was a special version which enabled debug, but that was a post for 2020 I think so probably outdated.

    Quote from nizce

    I've also had the dropouts while unpacking LHA files in DosControl, that time it happened every time it puts up a new shell with the unpack progress info.

    Some people like to hear MOD files while they're working with the Amiga. Could it be that you have a mod player in the background?


    Also, I see that you have both CCK capacitance and the CCK pull-up enabled. Are they really both required on your system? This may actually cause mis-reading a bit on the chip bus, resulting in a wrong line count, which is the cause for your monitor going black for a split second.


    If the CCK pullup/capacitance settings don't change anything, you could give the screen mode detection a little more margin for error by reducing the min. lines by 2, and increasing the max. lines by 2 as well.


    Jens

    Hi!

    Quote
    Some people like to hear MOD files while they're working with the Amiga. Could it be that you have a mod player in the background?

    Sorry no mod player running.

    Quote from Jens

    Also, I see that you have both CCK capacitance and the CCK pull-up enabled. Are they really both required on your system? This may actually cause mis-reading a bit on the chip bus, resulting in a wrong line count, which is the cause for your monitor going black for a split second.


    If the CCK pullup/capacitance settings don't change anything, you could give the screen mode detection a little more margin for error by reducing the min. lines by 2, and increasing the max. lines by 2 as well.


    Jens

    I tried to disable both(turned out I only needed one active to get rid of blinking lines/pixels) CCK capacitance and CCK pull-up, but it still blacks out.

    Also reduced min lines by 2 and increasing max lines by 2.
    Didn't make a difference so tried with -3 +3 also, but still blacks out(tried both with the CCK enabled and disabled).


    I then tried setting the Amiga to "PAL 1280x512 Super High res laced" and used the same VGA Mode as used with the above HD720 setting. And that works without any problem, no black/drop outs using for example iBrowse.


    Really strange.

    Any idea what it could be?


    PS. I reseated the U7 adapter, but still can't get the live mode to show up pressing left shift, ctrl and tilde. But one thing at a time :)

    The HD720 mode is a hacked screenmode, made from disassembled monitor types by a third party, not original Commodore. It may actually be a problem in the screen mode itself, and if you're using iBrowse, you are probably not only running a lot of software in the background, but also have an accelerator that has an influence on system performance, We'll have to look at the complete system and work our way step by step towards the root cause.


    If the line count doesn't make a difference, we might have to check other screen modes that have a similar amount of lines, or move the HD720 higher in the list, so it takes priority over the "other" screenmode, whatever that may be.


    Live config not working is really a mystery. We did have cases where live config didn't work, but that was caused by the CIA adapter being connected the wrong way round. The picture you've posted shows it installed correctly - was the adapter ever installed in a different orientation or on a different chip? This would have killed the driver chips for the keyboard signals on Indivision AGA MK3. So if this happened, we'll find out anyway - you could just tell us and we're done with the diagnosis.


    Jens

    Here are some info about my system:

    Amiga 1200 equipped with a ACA1233n-40 and a A314-cp connected to the clockport of the motherboard(also tried without the A314-cp connected just to make sure it was not causing it).

    The PSU I use is an original A500 Commodore.

    Running a plain AmigaOS 3.2.1 with no special things.


    I'll be happy to troubleshoot further to find out what could cause this.

    It works good when in mode "PAL 1280x512 Super High res laced" and can live without HD720, but still would like to know and it'd be nice to get it working.


    Regarding the live mode not working:

    I read the manual before installation which shows the orientation. Since I'm afraid to fry my Amiga 1200(bought It a couple of months ago for a rather steep price which I guess is normal nowadays) I don't dare to guess how it should be mounted.


    When I unpacked the mk3 though I noticed that the CIA adapter(if that's what it's called) was placed on its side in the box, so it's PCB had pushed a hole on the top of the package, see pictures(and a small dent in the bottom).

    Don't know if that can be it, but don't think so.


    Just opened up and inspected the CIA adapter and the PCB/adapter itself doesn't look damaged.

    But I noticed something when comparing the pictures of my MK3 board(the main board not the CIA adapter) to the one in this article https://lyonsden.net/indivision-aga-mk3-flicker-fixer/ .

    The connector which has the cable connected to it, which leads to the CIA adapter, looks different(see attached picture marked with an arrow).
    Perhaps mine is another revision than the one in the article I mention above and it's not that?

    Your 3rd picture shows that the insulator is almost pulled off. Someone must have attempted to pull the cable off, and pulled the insulator as well.


    I assume that at least one pin does not have full contact. Please push it all the way in - carefully, with enough force that the insulator will be pushed back, but making sure that you don't bend the pins up. I's say it's about 1-2mm that you need to push it in.

    Live mode is up and running again, thanks! :)

    Pushed it back 1-2mm as you said and it starter working.


    Any suggestion of modes to try regarding the black outs, to time out potential broken HD720 modes?

    TBH, the HD720 mode is nothing that I personally use, so I can't even say if it's stable or not. Please see if the other HighGFX modes show the same problem: What about the 1280x1024 mode? That's the one I use with my A1200.

    I just want to say: I have the same problem, specifically with Ibrowse! It makes my monitor lose sync. I am using AGA MK3 latest firmware. Running HIGHGFX: Super-High res laced / Indivision mode: Pre 1280x1024 vsync & auto res.

    By the way Jens I tried your recommended XTREME 1280x1024 with my EDID 1280x1024 and it displays beautifully! Except, such a high resolution uses all my chip memory and then programs like Ibrowse won't even load any more - do you have any advice around this chip memory issue when using high res?

    Okay - I've been doing some testing on: HIGHGFX: Super-High res laced / Indivision mode: 1024x768 VESA - the results are very good in regards to keeping sync & looking good. In-fact I have been able to capture the odd behavior in IBrowse, I have recorded a video! It seems that whenever something 'processor intensive' is being done, the picture loses clarity, it goes blocky momentarily. My theory is that with nizce and myself, before when we were using higher resolutions, Ibrowse's strange blocky effect would actually knock the display off, probably due to the extra overhead of the resolution - but when I'm using a 1024x768 output resolution, we can see the strange behavior.


    Jens I've never played around with those clock/clk loading options in the indivision settings, is this something I should try to alleviate this? Any thoughts on the matter?


    Here is the video (it's currently processing, if not working straight away try later)

    https://drive.google.com/file/…Rwe-wTCb/view?usp=sharing

    This looks like iBrowse is messing with multitasking, and it skips VBlank IRQs. This is nothing that Indivision can do anything about; I'd try lowering the task priority of iBrowse, maybe this helps, but if the program actually stops multitaking (disable() function), there's no way.


    I'd be interested to see how it behaves with an A2024 monitor and the 1008-pixel-resolution. However, since the A2024 is really rare, I have my doubts if this test can ever be made...


    That said, it's almost pointless to try th pullup/down and capacitor options in the advanced settings. This appears to be a missing half-frame.


    What CPU card do you have in that computer?


    Jens

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