P96 v3.5.0 conflict at startup, black screen from WhichAmiga/P96Speed

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    Howdy,


    I may have 2 separate problems here, but both I think are pointing to some kind of conflict with P96.


    I have a Phoenix A1000, 2mb Chip, and TF536+64Mb RAM, booting from a CF Card via IDE, and an ECS V4.

    I also have a Zorro/LAN/IDE/CP card installed in my B2000 expansion slot, but nothing in my side expansion slot.

    I have P96 v3.5.0, using the IndiECS monitor driver (only IndiECS, PAL, NTSC, and Native drivers in my dev/monitors).

    I did have a GBA PII++ card installed, but removed this and the driver from devs/monitors in my troubleshooting. I have also tried removing the Zorro/LAN/IDE/CP card to eliminate my expansions as the problem.


    Problem 1 - Blank screen:

    When I run WhichAmiga or P96Speed with the IndiECS driver loaded, my Amiga goes to a black screen - it is still running, but both the RGB and ECS V4 output to VGA remain blank until I reboot. On Reboot everything works OK again, and I can run WHDLoad or other apps without this problem occurring.


    I have changed my driver to the native PAL driver and all the problems go away - WhichAmiga and P96 work just fine. I've also noticed 'Blanker' the screensaver tool is running full speed in PAL mode, but runs very slow and choppy using the IndiECS screenmode - I suspect this is because the Blitter is not enabled (yet) in the IndiECS driver?


    Problem 2 - crash and stutter:

    A more annoying problem. When I use any screen mode that uses P96, my computer will stall (crash) while loading apps from WBStartup (gets through Startup-Sequence and User-Startup every time, without fail). This happens with the ECS V4, and with 2 different GBAPII++ cards I have tried.


    If my Amiga gets through WBStartup it will work perfectly, no crashes. But every 3 or 4 boots it will crash at WBStartup - usually running AmiGreet which turns into a really fast 'stutter'...dadadadadadadada....And the IDE LED stays comes on and stays on. No guru or error. Usually I reboot and it's fine, but sometimes I need to reboot 2 or 3 times - but again - once Workbench has started its perfect. I have also tried emptying my WBStartup folder of course, and tried removing AmiGreet but the crash still occurs with the same frequency,


    If I boot with a native PAL screen mode, I never get the crash/stutter - boots every time.


    I thought the crash might have been my expansion cards and have spent weeks playing with jumpers, trying different firmware, disabling as much as I could, removing the card(s) completely, even replaced a PAL chip (P70) with a GAL chip, and back again. I don't think there is much I haven't tried.


    This was also happening in P96 v 3.4.1, so it's been something I have been troubleshooting for a while.


    Does anyone have any tips on what else I could look for to narrow where the conflict is happening please? Thank you advance for any help.

    As it's so intermittent, this is more likely a hardware problem than a software problem. Please describe your power supply and shielding setup, and also tell us where your mobile phone is placed when you use this Phoenix Amiga.


    Jens

    Thanks,


    I have a 250W HDPlex GaN Power Supply, with an Amigatronic AMYA All-In-One ATX converter (Full Version) to provide Tick signal and power. I have also had this same problem using two different and recapped A1000 power supplies (a Mitsumi and a Shindengen), and also with another Phoenix Amiga that I had in the past.


    I am using the A1000 shielding, modified (cut) with holes to fit my kit. I have also had this shielding dual-electroplated in Nickel and then Chrome for superior EMF absorption (and it looks a lot prettier). I am sure that I can replicate this issue with the shielding removed, but can test again. The Shielding is grounded to the A1000 mainboard GND. There is no floppy drive in my case, I have replaced DF0 with a GOTEK drive - the problem can be replicated without the GOTEK connected.


    I believe I have cleaner power signals with this PSU, and have checked my +5v at the CPU is stable and within spec - I had to do this for a 68030-TK2 that I was running before the TF536 - which was also part of the troubleshooting this crash/stutter problem. I felt I was getting less of this stuttering issue with the TF536, and so stuck with this card and sold my TK2.


    The Mobile phone sits over 2 metres away from the Amiga, but I think can even be in another room and the problem can still be replicated - I'll test this specifically later.


    I do not get this crash/stutter if I do not use P96 though - does the power profile change significantly using P96 even with just the ECSV4 and no other cards? If I use a native mode (and still with the ECS V4 installed), I have not been able to replicate the issue so far. Is there something I can measure when the crash occurs to see if there is a power deficit somewhere?


    Also - I am using Kick and OS 3.2.2.1.


    Thanks again!

    Edited 4 times, last by dwight01: Commercial links removed - I don't want to deal with the legal implications. ().

    I'm not thinking of a power deficit, but a regulation problem. The PSU should have 5V as it's main regulation rail, which is not a given on ATX PSUs. That's why I am frequently warning not to use ATX adapters. Read more about the topic in our PSU FAQ.


    If we could replicate the issue with an A500+ACA500plus+Indivision ECS V4+ACA1234, that would be a basis that would enable us to look into a software issue. I'd even limit this to using P96speed, as "Whichamiga" is a very hacky tool that even the author says is hacky. In other words: WhichAmiga should be run without startup-sequence, and the system should get a clean start after running it.


    Jens

    I don't have an A500 sorry, but the same problem was happening with two original and recapped A1000 power supplies, and another Phoenix Amiga that I had. Part of the reason I moved to the HD Plex was in troubleshooting this same issue.

    I was referring to ACA500plus, ACA1234 and Indivision ECS V4, because that replicates about the CPU power and setup that you have there (Phoenix is an ECS machine, though not from Commodore). So best I can think of is to take an image of your CF card (just put it in a Linux machine and dd it), then I can attempt to boot that on such a setup and see what happens.


    I believe there's even a dd implementation for the Amiga - and since you have network, moving a large image shouldn't be much of a problem.


    Jens

    Just got a hint from a German support case - might help you as well:


    After installing P96, there's two things that need to be set to ON on P96 prefs that are default-off: It's "BlackSwitching" and "EnableBootVGA" that shoul be ON. Please check. This may solve your "black screen" issue.


    Jens

    Thanks for tips, I checked and have turned ON Blackswitching and EnableBootVGA in the Overall settings, but still get the 'black screen' sorry. If I connect the GBAPII++ back on and use a GBAPII++ screen mode or if I use a native PAL screenmode, then I do not get the black screen issue. Agghh!


    Happy to 'dd' my CF Card, it is 32Gb though - ouch. I do this usually once per month just to keep a backup for myself.


    I have also been playing around with MMULibs and tried disabling Z2 Instruction cache in the MMU-Configuration and using MuMove4k, MuFastZero, and MuFastROM. This also has not helped so far - it may have even increased the frequency of the crash and stuttering.


    I am trying to get a SnoopDOS capture, but I cannot get it to crash so far when I run SnoopDOS from my Startup-Sequence. I think my Phoenix might be becoming sentient and is teasing me - when I want it to crash, it refuses to crash!


    My system always gets through Startup and User-Startup even when it does crash.


    Again, thank you for any advice.

    A development in the black screen issue, I have found that in attempting to open the Indivision prefs application, it also turns the screen black and never returns. Not great, but maybe helps point to where the problem might be?


    It does work from Native PAL screenmode, but not from an IndiECS screenmode. I am using Firmware 20241122, which I have refreshed just to be sure.

    That's a known issue: The tool is not aware of RTG and starts "poking" in registers, which it should not do. One of the next iterations will open a warning if it's launched from an RTG screen.


    Jens

    I reattached my GBAPII++ to my side expansion to continue troubleshooting, and can confirm that both WhichAmiga and P96Speed work again, and do not get stuck on a black screen while I am using a GBAPII++screenmode. However, as posted in another post - P96 v3.50 keeps disabling the 32bit and 24bit modes in P96 Prefs. It might be coincidence, but could the sudden dropping of any modes above 16bit be related to the ECSV4 also not having any modes greater than 16bit?


    I am now suspecting that the known issue mentioned above may also be behind the P96 Speed and WhichAmiga not returning from a black screen issue. The fix applied to IndiECS might fix those too?


    The crash and stutter problem may be software, I say this because I can use Workbench, and open folders without an issue up until the crash and stutter when everything freezes.


    anyway, enough for tonight.

    My Blank screen and my crashing and graphic glitches problem have turned out to be Amidock.


    Once I removed Amidock from my startup, I have not had a single crash. I am now using WBDock2.


    I have removed my GBAPII++ and am only using the ECS V4 now, and my Surf-4-Phoenix, which I just love.