Indivision ECS v3 and CRT usage

Here is my 1:1 720x576 Vsync PAL profile that works perfect for my BenQ BL702As and BL 912 LED screens. It's basically a scandoubled version of what would be shown if I connect them directly to RGB. So far I haven't had huge success with creating a 1:1 NTSC profile. But for PAL I have nailed it.

Latest ECSV3.7z

Quote from turrican9

Here is my 1:1 720x576 Vsync PAL profile that works perfect for my BenQ BL702As and BL 912 LED screens. It's basically a scandoubled version of what would be shown if I connect them directly to RGB. So far I haven't had huge success with creating a 1:1 NTSC profile. But for PAL I have nailed it.

Latest ECSV3.7z

Thanks for these profiles turrican9, I have a BL912 monitor I'd like to test them out on. Do you know if these profiles work on the Mk3 too?

Quote from jd64

Thanks for these profiles turrican9, I have a BL912 monitor I'd like to test them out on. Do you know if these profiles work on the Mk3 too?

I too have a BL912. And the profile should work the same on the 912 as it does on the BL702As. I don't know about the MK3 as I don't own one.

Quote from restqp

I wish the config program had a better gui though I have not a found a way to assign different modes to games and 640x512 interlaced wb

If you start digging into the topic of frame rate conversion and scaling, you'll find that it's an insanely complex one. It's therefore an especially hard topic to find a GUI that simplifies settings in a way that gives you all the possibilities.

So while it may be desirable to have fewer controls, it would always mean that you're limiting control over the output and conversion parameters. This would not do any justice to the task.

We've already hidden away a few settings in the "advanved" menu, but I understand that it takes some time to work yourself through the documentation. We're always open to suggestions, though. Please let us know which part of the documentation or the GUI is unclear, and we'll do your best to improve the product with the next update.

Quote from jd64

Do you know if these profiles work on the Mk3 too?

The AGA MK3 version of the flicker fixer is a direct successor to Indivision ECS V2/V3, so the config tools do share the format of the saved configurations. Further, the saved configs are plain ascii files that can even be shared in a forum like this, without having to upload a binary fil.

Of course there are limitations, such as "Indivision ECS V2/V3 won't be able to look at AGA modes", but that should be obvious. TO be honest, I'm not aware of any other limitations in exchanging configs between the two products, but Timm has all the required insight. My expectation is that you can read monitor profile data with the MK3, save that, and use the output modes in the ECS V2/V3 config tool. Timm?

Thanks - so it all boils down to "more presets" for you. We'll look into that.

Quote from restqp

kinda like the old sd/ff I had on my A1200: you plugged it and did nothing at all and you got synced pal/ntsc modes that just worked.

That was over 20 years ago, when most monitors still supported 50Hz as standard. That's not the case any more, and already lead to developing the first Indivision AGA in 2008 (development actually started in 2007). Today, finding a 50Hz-capable monitor is the exception to the rule, so sd/ff-compatible modes are unlikely to really help these days.

That's of course different if you've in an NTSC country, where the sd/ff would output 60Hz, which is available a most of today's monitors.

Quote from Jens

My expectation is that you can read monitor profile data with the MK3, save that, and use the output modes in the ECS V2/V3 config tool. Timm?

No, that's not possible. There are subtle differences between the ECSv2/v3 and AGAmk3 not in the configuration format, but in the value ranges.

Finally nailed the NTSC profile. I compared to what my TC64V2 was doing when running the minimig AGA core in scandoubled NTSC mode.

I now have a nice 720x480 NTSC 60Hz Vsync profile that switches my BenQ BL 702As and BL912 to 640x480 60Hz, just like TC64V2 minimig core is doing in scandoubled NTSC mode.

Quote from restqp

awesome! thanks for sharing this turrican9!!!!

I have a question though - why the VGA modes are defined as so high resolutions with double the width?

for NTSC it is 1440x480 and for PAL it is 1480x576

what is the trick? I am using an EIZO 15" CRT that states max 1024x768/85hz and both of your modes work just fine but it makes me wonder... any insight on this?

I have to do it to get good results. I think Jens can explain this. Basically when I double the resolution it increases the pixel clock. If I try to type in the real resolution (half like 720 instead of 1440) I get a poor picture quality. At least when I try to duplicate the scandoubled 1:1 resolutions. Probably because the pixelclock is then cut in half.

With regards to the PAL profile having 1480 instead of 1440 has to do with me struggling to get my particular LCD screens lock to the 720x576 resolution. I had to do it in order to hit a specific vertical frequency/pixelclock value or my BenQ BL702A/BL 912 LCD screens would sometimes switch to 1080i resolution. But as I said, this will probably not affect your CRT. You should still see the 1:1 720x576 50Hz scandoubled PAL picture correctly (720 width). I believe the latest NTSC profile should work really nice aswell.

Quote from restqp

I see ... I hope Jens will shed some light - just for completeness

but I have to say turrican9 that the profiles work so well that I spent the couple of nights playing some Turrican again... so smooth and nice

Yes, this is a very advanced tool and I've spent ages experimenting with it to finally make native 1:1 scandoubled profiles that works properly for me. It's very nice to hear that they work nicely on your CRT aswell.

Turrican.. What can one say... Turrican 1 and 2 on Amiga and C64 for that matter are some of the best games ever made Enjoy your smooth gameplay

Thanks turrican9 , at the moment I use 3 Eizo S1933 monitors for my Amiga's with perfect settings of the Indi MK3 and ECS V3.

I also have 2 BL702a in case an Eizo breaks, so I can use your profiles

Quote from turrican9

Probably because the pixelclock is then cut in half.

Although I belive you're just stating the obvious - yes, that's the reason. Higher output resolution results in better scaler results, as the transition between pixels becomes smaller, and therefore sharper.

However, resolution is not only good in terms of "pixels per inch", but also in colours: What we currently don't advertise is that Indivision ECS V2/V3 has way more output colours than just the 12-bits/4096 colours that the OCS/ECS Amigas have. The DA converter is 7 bits per colour component, so the scaler can produce roughly 2 million colours during the transition from one pixel to another.

Quote from restqp

thanks for the explanation Jens

ah that makes sense then, it's a workaround

if I want to test 1440x576 I would also have to lower pixel clock to something like 51081081 as well?

what do you suggest?

and yes, the NTSC profile is great too - I now switched my wb to NTSC-laced so it's a little easier on the eyes

I should probably just use the 800x600 ECS SuperPlus mode though... but the flicker/resolution is kinda nostalgic LOL

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So I made a new 1440x576 (720x576) PAL profile. I managed to hit the exact same vertical frequency I have on my 1480x576 PAL profile. I think this was the culprit for my particular LCD screens sometimes autopicking 1080i instead of 720x576, and not pixelclock.

1480x576 profile is still in the list, but disabled. And the new 1440x576 PAL profile is active.

Anyway, here you go