Indivision ECS V3 - mounting problem in A600

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Don't Panic. Please wash hands.
  • Hi guys,


    I just bought ECS V3 to replace my V2 due to the ghosting problem. V2 used to have mounting pins soldered directly to the board and it worked just fine with my memory card without RTC and with no raiser - meaning I could close my A600 casing perfectly fine.

    Now I got the V3, there's finally no ghosting, but there's no pins on the board so the raiser is now obligatory, because there's no means to connect it to the mem extension without raiser... meaning - I can't close my A600 anymore.


    Is there any particular reason this has been changed it in V3?
    Will soldering older connector type (with pins not holes) directly to the V3 board void my warranty?


    cheers,

    Marcin

  • Is there any particular reason this has been changed it in V3?

    Yes - it's for serviceability.


    Will soldering older connector type (with pins not holes) directly to the V3 board void my warranty?

    Any soldering will void your warranty. I have a better solution: Let me know your order ID, and I'll send out low-profile socket adapters.

  • Yes - it's for serviceability.


    Any soldering will void your warranty. I have a better solution: Let me know your order ID, and I'll send out low-profile socket adapters.

    I got it. Thanks for finding solution to my problem. My order ID is: 111567.

  • So that CRT is compatible with the VSync method that Indivision ECS V2/V3 offers? It's geared towards compatibility with flat screens, but should work even better with CRTs. I just never got around to testing it with any of the (very few) remaining CRTs that I have. You know, heavy lifting and stuff....

  • Good question, but how can I actually confirm that Vsync is/is not engaged for certain mode?

    I was testing different configs with Vsync ticked/not ticked and in case of games/demos I ended up with modified 50hz VGA mode which gives me BUTTER SMOOTH fluidity (same as old good 1084) for fast scrolling in demos. The 100 hz mode was also OK but with fast horizontal scrolling there was some lack of fluidity (not a huge one, but still noticeable).

    For workbench I use Interlaced HiRes Amiga mode with 72hz VGA output and this gives me full-colour WB in nice resolution and with no flickering.

  • how can I actually confirm that Vsync is/is not engaged for certain mode?

    Use the config tool!


    Apart from that:

    modified 50hz VGA mode which gives me BUTTER SMOOTH fluidity (same as old good 1084) for fast scrolling in demos.

    ...this just tells me that there is nothing to change. If you don't see a difference in smooth scrolling to what you remember from a 15kHz CRT, we ahve achieved our goal.

    The 100 hz mode was also OK but with fast horizontal scrolling there was some lack of fluidity (not a huge one, but still noticeable).

    100 Hz requires double-buffering, otherwise you'll get tearing. I think there's a config from an Indivision AGA MK3 customer in this forum where he managed to get 100Hz, double-buffer and VSync to work on the MK3. Since the ECS V2/V3 version and the AGA MK3 version share a alrge part of the output stage, most of that config should be easily transferrable to ECS V2/V3.

  • Use the config tool!

    Sure I did :) But does just ticking VSYNC option ensures it's being actually used? Doesn't it have to be somehow supported by the display?

    ...this just tells me that there is nothing to change. If you don't see a difference in smooth scrolling to what you remember from a 15kHz CRT, we ahve achieved our goal.

    I did side by side comparison with 15khz Commodore 1084 ST monitor, with simultaneous output via Indi & RGB Video out. There's absolutely no difference in fluidity for 50HZ VGA - of course then you get a little flicker as always for all 50hz content, but cmon, I can finally run my Ami on 21" inch VGA CRT screen!

    100 Hz requires double-buffering, otherwise you'll get tearing. I think there's a config from an Indivision AGA MK3 customer in this forum where he managed to get 100Hz, double-buffer and VSync to work on the MK3. Since the ECS V2/V3 version and the AGA MK3 version share a alrge part of the output stage, most of that config should be easily transferrable to ECS V2/V3.

    With or without doublebuffer there was still some tearing in 100hz with Vsync enabled, but this takes us to my 1st question above.
    Additionally, I think don't really understand the meaning of VSync line number parameter... does it actually have any in that case?

  • With or without doublebuffer there was still some tearing in 100hz with Vsync enabled, but this takes us to my 1st question above.

    The possibility of some jerkiness with 100Hz and double-buffering is acutally mentioned in the documentation (see 5.4 Options.. )

    But does just ticking VSYNC option ensures it's being actually used? Doesn't it have to be somehow supported by the display?

    If you enable VSync, then the output will stop after a full frame and wait for the Amiga to also come across a VSync before the output engine will continue. Note that this method of syncing input and output can only be done on a "by line" basis, which is the reason for the requirement of the output stage being a tad bit faster than the Amiga frame rate.


    Additionally, I think don't really understand the meaning of VSync line number parameter... does it actually have any in that case?

    Sure there is a meaning. To be precise: In my passage above, I gave a simplified explanation for the way that the input side and the output side sync to each other. The simplified part is "output side waits for an Amiga-side-VSync". However, that would maximaze latency, as the output side would always show a buffer that is one frame old. Being able to move the scanline where the output side is released from it's waiting-state gives the possibility for the output side to catch up with the Amiga raster beam the further it goes down the frame buffer.


    Example: If you have a PAL screen, non-interlaced, you have 313 lines per frame. A V-Synced output side will run at (pretty) exactly twice the frame rate, so if you want to make sure that there is the least amount of lag, you'd start the output side at the time when the Amiga raster beam is in the middle of the frame. This way, the output side will catch up with the input side at the end of the frame, meaning that the further it goes down the buffer, the "younger" the data gets, creating the appearance of zero latency.


    This is still a bit simplified, as it does not cover the sync and blanking periods - these move the "ideal" point higher, and you can easily play around with the value (lower it) until you see tearing at the bottom of the screen - which is where you've gone too far. At that point, you increase the value again, and know that you have the lowest-possible latency for your output. Not just because you're using a CRT, but also because you're using the right flicker fixer :-)

  • there are 6 more pins soldered to ECSV3 which makes the assembly impossible, because they stick out way too high. Will it void my warranty if I shorten them carefully a bit ?

    You can shorten them without affecting warranty. However, only shorten them to be a tad bit longer than the low-profile adapter strips. The reason is that they serve an important mechanical purpose: They will keep you from installing the flicker fixer "shifted" into the socket. If you snip off too much, this protection will be gone, which will affect your warranty after all.

  • Yes - it's for serviceability.


    Any soldering will void your warranty. I have a better solution: Let me know your order ID, and I'll send out low-profile socket adapters.

    Hi Jens.

    I love this V3 in my a600, but, like dirtrider, I too cannot close my a600 case at all, which renders it unusable as a complete and closed system with the lid on. Would it also be possible to send me the low riser adapter please?


    BTW, the ide2cf adapter is a lovely quality piece of work and my miggy now boots using a CF card AND the Furia (finding your a600 cards was without success :-( ).

    My order number was in two parts, but think the a600 V3 was 116359 (together with 116353).

    Thanks

  • Since you'll be paying nothing for these, we'll just include a 0,00-EUR-invoice and a reference to the old order ID. If they want to charge you, you can quote the paperwork for the original order and claim that everything is already settled.