RR-Net MK3 - hangs after a while and does not respond to Warpcopy when sending server to it!

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Don't Panic. Please wash hands.
  • Hello,


    I can not get the RR-Net MK3 to work. It boots and the RR-Net MK3 Codenet server interface is displayed when pressing the C= key. Sofar so good. I change the IP adress to the correct one on my network (192.168.0.210) - outside DHCP "territory" and I see "CodeNet Server waiting for commands". If pressing the RUN/STOP key the Codenet server interface menu exits, BUT if I wait for a while, like a minute or so, it hangs and does not exit when pressing RUN/STOP. It also seems to hang once I use Warpcopy on the PC and the "Send server" command and I get a dialog box saying "Could not send server to C64". I tried this on Windows7 and Windows10.

    Also, I tried to change the IP-adress to various adresses on both "sides" with the same result. Furthermore, I tried network setups with a media bridge setup on my spare router but also direct wired connection to the RR-Net MK3 from the main router and different network cables. I also tried this on an older "Breadbin C64" (that I haven't opened and checked the ASSY NO of) with the same result.


    My setup:

    - C64C - ASSY NO: 250469 REV4, PCB NO: 252311, CPU: 8500 (week:8833), VICII: 8565R2(week:3088), CIA: 6526B(week:3088, 3288), SID: 8580R5 (week:3588), "PLA+TTL": 271715-01 (64pin IC, week:8832).

    - RR-Net MK3(from GGSdata) without "carrier cards": Serial no (?): 1352, MAC: 28:CD:4C:FF:F7:69, Firmware: "RR-NET MK3 CodeNet Server (R38)", jumper in open position,

    - WarpCopy0.6 on Windows 10 and also Windows7 PC. (I also tried with Warpcopy II V0.1 Alpha 3 released in 2010 but to no avail - same result).


    I see other people have similar problems in the forum regarding RR-Net MK3(Paul Nelsen and Micky). My next idea is to try the "alternative firmware" as I have the correct ASSYNO 250469 to do so. Do you recommend this or know if it solves the problem?


    Any other ideas on what to check on how to solve this issue? Any other info you'd like to have to solve this issue?


    // KMS

  • I see other people have similar problems in the forum regarding RR-Net MK3(Paul Nelsen and Micky).

    I don't see a similarity to those cases, as your unit starts fine and launches the Codenet server. What I'd suspect here is lots of broadcast traffic that confuses the C64-side software. The other two cases don't even get that far.


    Just to confirm: Does your C64 go back to the Codenet server if you reset/power-cycle it after that "hang-after-1-minute"?

  • The original codenet server is indeed a bit sensible for random traffic on the network... And indeed, when the power-on message works and you can start the codenet server, then using it should work as well.


    Try if you can "ping" the C64 (when the codenet server is running). If that works, codenet should also work.

  • Just to confirm: Does your C64 go back to the Codenet server if you reset/power-cycle it after that "hang-after-1-minute"?

    Yes, when I switch the C64C off and on again and hold down the C= key the codenet server starts as before and I can change the IP again if I wish. The behaviour is the same on the breadbin C64. I have tried this several times with the same behaviour as described in the previous post.

    The original codenet server is indeed a bit sensible for random traffic on the network... And indeed, when the power-on message works and you can start the codenet server, then using it should work as well.


    Try if you can "ping" the C64 (when the codenet server is running). If that works, codenet should also work.

    I was thinking a bit about that too. I have plenty of other devices on my network (phones, TV, NAS, PCs etc) and that there would be too many messages for the network chip to handle or similar but I am ignorant about that chip/software on RR-Net MK3. There are about devices 8 in total on my network, the NAS(static IP) is the only one wired to the router and also now the C64C.

    I have tried to ping but with no luck, both when connected by wire to the main router or via the wireless media bridge router. Nor is the C64C IP adress listed in any router when I look at what devices are connected. Maybe, the minimalistic IP-stack doesn't support such but I would assume I'd see it there.


    Should I go for a reflashing with the "alternative firmware" or any other suggestions on what to check before that? Do you know if the Codenet server in the alternative firmware is less sensitive to network traffic or is a newer/patched Codenet server?

  • Nor is the C64C IP adress listed in any router when I look at what devices are connected.

    That listing will only show the devices that have requested an IP address using the DHCP protocol. The standard software for the RR-Net MK3 does not do that, so it's expected that it does not show up in that list.



    Should I go for a reflashing with the "alternative firmware"

    That will get you DHCP functionality if you hold down the left shift-key on startup/reset, and the unit should show up in your router's list.

  • "Do you know if the Codenet server in the alternative firmware is less sensitive to network traffic or is a newer/patched Codenet server?"

    It is indeed a bit more robust, worth a try.

  • I tried another network configuration. I set my spare router as an own network and only the RR-Net MK3 connected to it by wire and my windows10 computer connected wireless. It has a DHCP server from 192.168.1.2-50. My PC got IP 192.168.1.45. I configured the Codenet server to RR-Net MKS to IP 192.168.1.64. I pinged it again and this is the output from Powershell(first from RR-Net and second from the router itself):


    PS C:\Users> ping 192.168.1.64


    Pinging 192.168.1.64 with 32 bytes of data:

    Reply from 192.168.1.45: Destination host unreachable.

    Reply from 192.168.1.45: Destination host unreachable.

    Reply from 192.168.1.45: Destination host unreachable.

    Reply from 192.168.1.45: Destination host unreachable.


    Ping statistics for 192.168.1.64:

    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),

    PS C:\Users> ping 192.168.1.1


    Pinging 192.168.1.1 with 32 bytes of data:

    Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

    Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

    Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

    Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64


    Ping statistics for 192.168.1.1:

    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),

    Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:

    Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 1ms, Average = 1ms


    I guess the above means that the chip actually responds to ping, even if the IP (PC .45) and text "Destination host unreachable" is a bit confusing. The statistics says that no packages are lost from 192.168.1.64.


    When I do this, the codenet server "application" on the C64C hangs immediately, RUN/STOP does not work immediately after I send the ping command. If I don't send it, it seems to run for quite a long time ( I only tested up to approx 1.5 minutes). However, it behaves stochastically. It has also crashed after 1 minute but it doesn't do this all the time. If I ping it again after the codenet server crashes, I get the same result as above, meaning the network chip is still responding.


    "Do you know if the Codenet server in the alternative firmware is less sensitive to network traffic or is a newer/patched Codenet server?"

    It is indeed a bit more robust, worth a try.

    So, due to my findings above and your reply, I guess I should try the "alternative firmware"(with or without DHCP) as the next step? The codenet server R38 on the RR-Net MK3 seems to be the failing part here. The network chip on RR-Net MK3 seems to be alive and kicking.

  • I don't think you are interpreting the results correctly.... "Destination Host not reachable" means just that, it can also indicate a network misconfiguration, a broken cable, or whatever. (you'll get the same if you dont connect the cable at all).


    A somewhat better test to check if the connection is working correctly is... plug in the cable to the rrnet and watch the LEDs. the green one should light up (LINK establish). now watch the other LED, it should be off. issue the ping command - and the LED should blink in regular intervals (a few times per second). and when you stop the ping it should stop blinking.


    as for flashing the alternative firmware.... its a double edged sword. yes, it may help with some problems (such as unexpected crashes due to random network traffic) and has DHCP etc - however, since flashing was originally not a feature for endusers, we can not guarantee that flashing will work correctly (and if it doesnt, you might need another C64 to reflash it again).


    that said - do you have some kind of "carrier card" (such as a retro replay) you can use to check if the network setup is working? that'd take the rrnet ROM out of the equation and makes analyzing the problem a bit easier.

  • Hello again,


    I finally got this to work but will write my experiences here in case someone else runs into the same problems and can possibly get some clues from my trial and error experiment as this was very tedious and time consuming.


    I didn't keep my mind open enough. I managed to get the RR-net MK3 to work finally. My c64c, that I, in previous posts, have been writing about saying it doesn't work, does not... yet anyways... The problems is something with that particular computer I have, possibly the expansion port itself. I was however able to use it to flash the RR-net with the "Alternative firmware". But after that I could not get it to respond to Warpcopy (the server wouldn't tranfser), nor did the DHCP work. Only one or two frames got transfered and then it crashed/hung. So, I gave up briefly. BUT then the other day I tried again. I did it with a more systematic approach. Started an old winXP machine up since I thought the network was "noisy", lowered it's ethernet to 10 Mbps, disabled the Wifi adapter, connected a 10 Mbps switch in between etc. It still didn't work!


    However, I decided to try this WinXP setup with my two old breadbins C64s. After a while of tinkering I finally managed to get Warpcopy to run on both of them. My one breadbin c64 with a replaced PLA, semi broken SID and one broken CIA worked almost immediately with Warpcopy and could get the Warpcopy server transfered to it. The second breadbin(has all original parts, nothing replaced) at first simply just crashed immediately when switched on and RR-Net MK3 connected. After a few powercycles it started to transfer the Warpcopy server but it got interrupted after a while. I did try this over and over again and more and more of the server got transfered. I had to power cycle in between the tries as the c64 did hang. After several tries it finally got transfered and I could use the Warpcopy program from my WinXP PC ro transfer disk images.


    After having success with the two breadbins on the WinXP computer, I decided to retry to connect it to my LAN at home and my Windows10 computer. This also worked for both of them. So, Windows10 and connecting the RR-Net MK3 to a fast speed network also works and also confirms that it is not the RR-Net MK3 that is faulty but the c64c computer I have. The breadbin c64s I have can handle the DHCP and static IP adress assignment, Warpcopy etc in/with RR-Net MK3. I have also managed to run Contiki OS on them with RR-Net MK3.


    I also tried again today and the breadbin with all original parts had the same problem with crashing when switching it on, transfering the Warpcopy server took several tries and in general it behaved erratically at first. After a while it started to work so I think it also needs to "warm up" a bit before working with RR-Net MK3. This is most likely depending on that machine and not the RR-Net. This machine has not been switched on since the mid 90s so it might need to be used more frequently and then it might work fine when switching it on with RR-Net.


    So, my conclusions on getting RR-Net to work:


    1. Have a very open mind about the c64 you connect it to and remember these machines are old. It may seem to work completely if it is possible to load a game or similar on it but some parts really don't work, i.e. the expansion port.

    2. It's good to have several c64s to try on. It might not work on one but on the other.

    3. Be patient, and try several times for instance with WarpCopy, if an improvement in data transfer is seen.

    4. Let the c64 be on for a while before trying to work with the RR-Net MK3.

    5. Windows 10 or Wifi/High speed ethernet routers/networks are not really disturbing the RR-Net MK3.

    6. Some network knowledge is good to have in case of doing tedious tests to exclude possible errors from a network the RR-Net MK3 is connected to.


    The above is tested with the Alternative firmware that I was able to flash on the RR-Net MK3 as I had the correct c64c for correct flashing. I do believe that the original firmware would have acted the same on my machines but this I haven't tested and thus can't confirm. If flashing the Alternative firmware onto RR-Net MK3, make sure the instructions on how to do that is followed correctly!


    I will try to get the c64c, that I have with the "ALDI" shortboard, to work later on as well but for now I am quite happy. I believe the expansion port on that machine is involved in some way but have to do further investigation.


    Hope this helps someone else in case of problems,


    // KMS

  • I have connected my MK3 to my Retro Replay. I had similar problems to yours. Usually, it would boot to the read prompt, often flickering rapidly and not responding to keyboard presses. Clearly crashed. Sometimes, it would to the proper RR screen, but as soon as I pressed F6 to start CodeNet, it would crash, every time. I got WarpCopy to work one single time by loading it from floppy. I tried everything several times, but could not see any patterns. What worked once, did not work the next time and so on.


    The solution: VOLTAGE.


    My power supply does not have the resistors to boost the output voltage on the 5 V rail, so it outputs 5.0 V exactly when not under load. However, when the breadbin draws an amp, the voltage drop in the cable, connector and switch resulted in the voltage on the RR dropping to 4.85 V or thereabouts. That seems to be too low for the MK3.


    I have now connected an adjustable lab power supply and set it to 5.2 V. I feed the voltage into the original C64 power supply, so that voltage drops in the cable still apply. Now, everything work perfectly.


    So, it seems the RR-Net MK3 is quite sensitive to low voltage.