Indivision ECS V4: New features, development progress

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    Quote from RokiS

    Or perhaps, since V4 is to be so expanded, a digital output (the same DVI+Audio via HDMI as in Indi AGA MK3) could be added to it - as a paid add-on. I would be in favor of something like that.

    Really, in the 21st century, many people use monitors/TVs with HDMI to "play" with retro hardware :), and it would be a serious reason to buy an Indivision ECS V4.

    It seems to me, that the easiest and least expensive solution, you be for them to just sell and adaptor that converts VGA to HDMI. Those work well enough and can be had cheaply.

    I know, because I have been using such a solution for a long time (with Indivision ECS V2).

    However, I would prefer not to have what is not needed sticking out of the Amiga and still require a separate power supply. Besides, there is always a loss of quality with such a device....

    And there would be a reason to replace the Indivision.

    As stated earlier, keeping cost low is the prime directive here - system cost, that is, so the monitor has to be taken into account as well.


    I have worked on the CPLD of Indivision ECS V4 this week, and it's now possible to keep two different FPGA cores in the flash of the unit. This means that we have extra space for things that can be added in form of a separate FPGA core. This might come in handy if we're adding digital audio, which takes quite a bit of FPGA space.


    A digital-output unit would still "stick out the back" (though not as far as your current solution) and require an extra connection to Indivision ECS V4 - the plan would be to connect to the 23-pin monitor port and get power plus a few extra (digital) signals from there that we can use to automatically identify the HDMI converter.


    Don't hold your breath, though. This is still months away, most likely not happening this year. We first want to finish the currently-planned feature set.


    Jens

    Quote from Jens

    As stated earlier, keeping cost low is the prime directive here - system cost, that is, so the monitor has to be taken into account as well.

    I think that additional costs with equipment with HDMI input do not need to be added, because everyone has a TV at home with such an input.

    Quote from RokiS

    I think that additional costs with equipment with HDMI input do not need to be added, because everyone has a TV at home with such an input.

    That's for your specific case, where you have (or are planning to use) the Amiga in the livingroom. This is out of the question in many families.


    So while I agree that a HDMI-capable display device is most likely available in every household of the western world by now, it's not standard in the "man cave" that's meant for retro-gaming. That place is still more likely to host the monitor that you've had "on your previous computer" or the monitor that was thrown out for free at the office when the new set of computers was installed.

    Jens

    They still sell new 5:4 monitors with VGA inputs. Used ones are easy to get hold of. One benefit of using VGA instead of DVI or HDMI is that you get access to more of the monitors settings when using VGA. So you can better tweak the picture to your liking. Also, 5:4 is much better for retro stuff than using widescreen. I like to go as small as possible. I like 17 inches over 19 inches when it comes to 5:4 monitors.

    Quote from turrican9

    They still sell new 5:4 monitors with VGA inputs.

    Can you name one which supports the combination 50Hz/31KHz on the analog input?


    Given that in each and every "man cave" there is one (or more) monitor with a digital input, and mostly none with a VGA one, I'm with all the users crying for a digital output on the Indivision ECS.

    Quote from lucadip

    Can you name one which supports the combination 50Hz/31KHz on the analog input?


    Given that in each and every "man cave" there is one (or more) monitor with a digital input, and mostly none with a VGA one, I'm with all the users crying for a digital output on the Indivision ECS.

    yes, I can. The Dell E1715S. I bought a couple of them last year. And I checked now, they are still available new. They do work fine with TC64/Indivision scandoublers at 31KHz 50Hz with Vsync when using the VGA input.

    turrican9 No, you couldn't until now. According to the Dell manual:



    So you are either using it at 60Hz, or out of the specs published from Dell itself, which is not a warranty for a working solution.

    Quote from lucadip

    turrican9 No, you can't. According to the Dell manual:


    forum.icomp.de/core/index.php?attachment/4693/


    So you are either using it at 60Hz, or out of the specs published from Dell itself, which is not a warranty for a working solution.

    manufacturers will never list stuff like this in the documentation, because this is out of PC spec. This is retro stuff we're using here. That's why people have to test to see if it works. This is the reason the retro community try to update lists on what monitors works on native 15KHz aswell. I am running 50Hz 31KHz with Vsync on. I know what I'm doing.


    Edit: Just like my BenQ BL702As and BL912. They will run at 15KHz 50Hz and Vsync. Directly from Amiga RGB. This is of course not listed in the manufacturers documentation. This became known many years ago from people testing these monitors with Amigas. My Dell E1715S will not sync to 15KHz but it will work fine on scandoubled (31KHz) 50Hz Vsync on. Tested on both my TC64V2 and Indivision ECS V3s.

    He has a point though - this "works" can change at any time without notice and is not guaranteed, so you can't be sure when you buy such monitor without testing that specific device.

    Quote from Tobias

    He has a point though - this "works" can change at any time without notice and is not guaranteed, so you can't be sure when you buy such monitor without testing that specific device.

    True. When I ordered my fist Dell E1715S I had no idea if it would work with TC64V2s 50Hz VIC II sync on. It worked perfectly. So I ordered one more, and it worked the same. So I'm reporting my findings for my two Dell E1715S monitors. So I would say there is a very good chance the same will apply if someone buy the same monitor today, but of course, not guaranteed.

    We've decided not to ship the Indivision ECS V4 flicker fixers today, because we've found a problem with activated VSync feature. I consider this a key feature of Indivision ECS V4, and we even promised an improvement by adding Autoresolution modes. Shipping the product this way would not feel right.


    This is probably a combination of bugs in the FPGA core and the configuration tool. The hardware is not affected. However, please understand that we don't want to ship a product with known bugs.


    Our workshop/shipping team will be on holidays for the next two weeks. The Indivision ECS V4 development team continues to work, which makes me confident that we can ship an error-free product in the week starting August 5th.

    Customers who have pre-ordered have gotten a separate eMail through the shop system.


    Jens

    Almost all back orders have been shipped today: We didn't get to the units with A600 CIA adapter today, so that will be tomorrow or Friday. Sorry about that - the growing amount of pre-orders for this product has really pushed us to the daily limit of what we can pack&ship here.


    Jens

    One more thing: It's summer holiday season, and you may have a substitute driver on your UPS route who does not leave a message about the parcel being stored in an access point, in case the driver doesn't catch you in person. The parcel may wait in an access point near you without you knowing, unless you actively track the parcel. The UPS website makes tracking really easy, so please do use it!


    Jens

    Not only is the new VGA cable black ... it has more pins than before...
    Which is only a problem for me because in most of my systems, there is a ECS v2/v3 compatible 10pin header that takes the VGA signal over to my RTG cards.
    So, now with the ECS v4 upgrades... I'm going to have to remake those jumper ribbon cables.


    I don't see the ECS v4 12 pin header pinout in the Wiki yet.
    Just the ECS v3 one


    ECS v3


    Can we please have the ECS v4 version ?

    Once we have the ECS v4 12pin VGA header pinout,
    I can re-spin the GRAKA-500-Slot PCB to add the VGA signals 12 and 15,
    which I assume were added to ECS v4 enabling EDID.

    pin 1 to 9 same as you have for V2/V3

    pin 10 monitor SDA goes to VGA p12

    pin 11 monitor SCL goes to VGA p15

    pin 12 monitor power goes to VGA p9 to power EEPROM in the monitor