Problems with my second Indivision AGA MK3 which does not behave like the first one

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Don't Panic. Please wash hands.

    Hi there.


    I have an Indivision AGA MK3 bought 2 or 3 years ago for my A1200. It has been fitted on a rev 1D4 mobo in a computer running a Blizzard 1260 and Subway USB, powered by a PSU engineered circa 2012 by Mechy, which has a strong +5V line of 7A.

    I did setup the Indivision at the time in a similar way than https://lesdocs.fr/parametrage-de-lindivision-aga-mk3/ with only the PAL Hires 640*512 with tuned overscan hooked to a 1920*1024 mode in 50 Hz, working perfectly with perfect smooth scrolling (no tearing with double buffering).


    Then, about 6 months ago i bought a second one from IComp, for my second A1200 running a Vampire 1200 V2, with a subway USB, powered by the IComp PSU (the only one which the Vampire seems to like enough to boot every time).

    The OS is a clone of my other A1200 with only a few libs or programs unsuitable for the Vampire removed.

    I use it on the exact same monitor has before and i expected tge Indi MK3 to take the same config file saved from the other one and to run the same way.

    But it does not. I have those awful flickering pixels and artifacts in non RTG mode out of the Indivision, and none of the CKKLine or PCLK Resistor has done anything better.

    I must precise that the mobo is exactly the same than the first installation (indeed, i swapped the mobo and the first setup with the Blizzard got a ReAmiga board, with the Indivision still working has before).

    Besides, i have noticed that with that second Indivision, i can't read anymore the EDID mode of my Ilyama monitor.

    If i return to default config, i have no artifact, but no smooth 50 Hz or matching res for my monitor.

    I have also tried reflashing the firmware, tried the latest 1.11 setup tool (i had before the 1.10), and tried another PSU (new Powershark one with HP USBC PSU), but it is still the same.

    I have also been using an older Indivision AGA MK1 with perfect picture, within the limits of its older config tool, but with 50 Hz all right.

    Note that the D520 also gives perfect picture on 50 Hz on the same computer and monitor.

    Mobo is recapped by the best Amiga technician to have ever lived (Hese).


    So, am i doing something wrong or is it something faulty with this Indivision AGA MK3?

    What could be different between the first one and the second one?

    It has been several months since my purchase because as you can imagine i have little spare time to tinker in depth with all my retro stuff but i hope i am still under warranty, should it be needed.


    Thanks for any help.

    Hi again.


    I have been investigating more about my problem, after i thought of the only real difference between my two setups, the use of an HDMI switcher between the HDMI out of the Vampire board and the HDMI out of the MK3, while my Blizzard 1260 setup only have the HDMI out of the MK3 straight to the monitor.

    The HDMI switch (unpowered 2in 1 out from Anker) has been working with no problem between D520/V1200 on the same monitor with same cables, but it seems that artifacts and glitches are more visible with it than when i connect this MK3 directly to the monitor.

    For instance, the game prince of persia has several flickering pixels during the title screen and some details like the white robe of Vizir Jaffar flickering as hell during the intro. With the MK3 directly connected to the monitor, it is still visible but less. Same game with D520, no problem.

    Another example is the Novacoder's port of AmiQuake AGA, works fine with the D520, flickering pixels and green lines everywhere with both the HDMI switch or the MK3 directly connected.

    Same with the Indivision AGA MK1, no problem at all (no HDMI switch with this one obviously).


    So, only thing i could do is try and swap my two Indivision AGA MK3 but i prefer to not do this to avoid wearing more the sockets and Lisa an because it would take me months to have enough time and space to dismount both the computers.

    "green lines" indicate a HDMI transfer error. Try a better cable. Many cables are just made to the lowest price point, no pair-wise shielding, and that causes green dots and stripes. Also, additional grounding of all devices may help.


    Jens

    Ok i will try other cables, but i shall emphasize that the same cables are fine with the other AGA MK3 and with the external D520.

    The monitor and cables setup is absolutly identical between the two A1200 equiped with AGA MK3, apart from the switcher i use for the 2 HDMI out of the A1200 with Vampire.


    About green lines, i got these ones only with AmiQuake AGA. With regular games, that's flickering of part of the screen. I have also noticed flickering on the early startup menu.


    About grounding, how can i add this to the MK3? I remember there is a grounding wire with the AGA MK1 for A4000 and for the ECS v1 i also own but i have seen this on the AGA MK3 for A1200.

    One difference may be the cable from the flicker fixer to the adapter board. A tiny difference in length may make a difference.


    I maybe thinking of a different "flicker" than you do - if you can make a screenshot, that would help ensuring that we're talking about the same thing.


    I wasn't specifically talking about the flickerfixer, but the whole Amiga: Your monitor probably has a 3-pin mains connection, which means that it's grounded. If you make a direct connection from the Amiga to that monitor, the system will be grounded. Same with an audio connection to an amp that uses a 3-pin mains connector. I'd like to see at least one such connection, so the whole system is grounded. This will make sure that there's no common mode noise in the system.


    Jens

    Hi.

    I don't know if you can see anything out of these vids taken with the iPhone.

    https://youtu.be/v74B86EzvXE

    https://youtu.be/WbwzOr5vsPI

    https://youtu.be/ZEaHYNlA7U4

    You shall see the Jaffar guy's white robe flickering, and as well some elements of the title screen. For Quake, there are green dots flickering everywhere, sometimes horizontal green lines.


    I have bought premium cables and tried every combinations of cables and DVI/HDMI on my two monitors and i still get these artifacts.

    I have brought back my other A1200 equiped with the Indi MK3, and with same monitors, same cables, same PSU, everything the same, i can launch those games without any artifact at all.

    Then, i have once again reverted the Indi which has artifacts to default settings, and then no artifact anymore (seems to use by itself 800*600 but the monitor complains briefly of an unsupported mode).

    I don't understand why under strictly the same environment, i can't take the perfect and smooth settings of my good IndiMK3 and load it in the second one for the same result on my flagship Vampire-powered A1200.


    As for the internal cable, i don't know, i am using those which came with the boards. They seemed in good shape.


    About ground, indeed the monitor has a 3 pins main connector.


    I might add that the good Indi can read EDID modes from the monitor and not the other. How come?

    Quote from Xanxi

    I don't know if you can see anything out of these vids taken with the iPhone.

    I can clearly see that this is a chipset problem, not an Indivision problem, so the HDMI cable and Indivision output cable are not at fault. The artefacts happen at Lisa output, otherwise they wouldn't show up in consecutive lines of the output signal.


    Quote from Xanxi

    I might add that the good Indi can read EDID modes from the monitor and not the other. How come?

    This is worth investigating: Can you swap the output cable and output boards?


    Did you ever upgrade the Vbb capacitor for Alice (bottom of the board)?


    Jens

    The motherboard has been recapped last year indeed with high end capacitors, including i guess any capacitor for Alice (not by me but by a very good repairman as stated above).


    I would rather not swap the cables between the two indi or the Indi themselves because it would take me too much time to deassemble both the computers and besides the screws holes of my good working one are really worn out and suffer each time i unscrew/rescrew the case.

    However, i have another custom cable made for me by a.mi.goun to output the HDMI via the RF space, and it does same artifacts, maybe even more.

    Best i can do is remove this MK3 from there and try it in a few weeks in a third A1200 which will be built with a Warp1260 board.

    The Indi MK1 and D520 are still perfectly fine with this one, but i would like to be full HDMI on this one and i need the D520 elsewhere (D520 won't be made again unfortunately).


    How could you explain however that the default mode is fine while the custom mode is not?

    Quote from Xanxi

    The motherboard has been recapped last year indeed with high end capacitors, including i guess any capacitor for Alice (not by me but by a very good repairman as stated above).

    The Vbb cap is usually not part of the re-capping process, because it's flying under the radar of most people. It's ceramic already, but the capacitance is too small for some Alice chips: From Commodore, it's 1µF, and I usually put 10µF on top.



    Quote from Xanxi

    How could you explain however that the default mode is fine while the custom mode is not?

    I can only speculate that the chipset drifts with increasing load on the 5V rail: If Indivision outputs a higher VGA/HDMI mode, the higher frequency results in more power consumption. Since you have a D520, you'll be able to verify that the flickering comes from the chipset, as you should see the same flicker on the D520 output.


    The one thing we should check is if the MK3 that doesn't "see" EDID in one computer also doesn't see it in the other.


    If you'r eplanning to come to Revision, I could take a look in person.


    Jens

    No idea if this cap has been changed, probably not, but if the Commodore one is not good enough, at least it did work with my first MK3.

    The D520 does not give any flickering with the same tests, AmiQuake especially, i have tested them yesterday back to back while i was doing the videos.

    Indi MK1 was working as well before i installed the MK3.


    I'm going to remove this MK3 from this computer this week-end and put back the old MK1 in it (MK1 is still working nice and can be switched to from the monitor menu for VGA). I also have a new never used MK2 AGA from 2011 or 2012 but i can't use it easily because of the adapter which can't be replaced by an Omniport unlike the later MK2CR.


    I will try again the MK3 with another clean A1200 to see if it is faulty and report back in a few weeks.

    I won't be at Revision unfortunately.

    Quote from Xanxi

    but if the Commodore one is not good enough, at least it did work with my first MK3.

    It's on the edge - I have one A1200 board that I had put aside for years with a label "solder new Alice on", and at some point I started digging into what the Vbb voltage is all about. Then tried to increase the capacitance and blitter errors were gone. Here's a picture of the location on the bottom side of the baord, taken from a German thread of this forum:


    https://forum.icomp.de/core/in…ttachment/3221-board-jpg/


    Quote from Xanxi

    The D520 does not give any flickering with the same tests, AmiQuake especially, i have tested them yesterday back to back while i was doing the videos.

    Was this while the MK3 was also installed and set to the output resolution that triggers the problem?


    Jens

    Hi.


    Yes, just checked again for the last time before i remove it tomorrow.

    IndiMK3 and D520 side to side on the two monitors on my desk, and i have the flickering and lines from the MK3 and no problem with D520. Only if is switch back to default mode (which seems to be 800*600@72Hz) they are gone.


    I will take a picture of the VBB capacitors area while i change the indivisions.


    Now some time will pass before i can test this unit on another mobo. I hope it will still be in time to return it to IComp for replacement if necessary. I bought this one in July 2023.