Indivision Mk2Cr - Intermittent green lines/ flashes and blank screen

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Don't Panic. Please wash hands.

    Hi Jens,


    I'm having a bit of an issue with the indivision and wanted to check it wasn't signs of impending failure.


    As you can see in the video link below, I am seeing intermittent green lines/ artefacts on the screen, usually followed by a blank screen before briefly coming back to life. This happens after a brief period of operation or after longer periods of usage.


    Indivision Mk2 Cr Issues - YouTube


    I took a video of the screen rather than using a capture card so you can see the issue on screen. This happens in workbench (HighGFX 1024x768) and PAL screenmodes (i.e. games).


    Any advice would be much appreciated.


    Thanks in advance,


    AndrewC

    Could be anything - either the PLL losing lock, the RAM losing an address line, something overheating or (like so often) a power supply problem. Impossible to say from a distance and without knowing what else is in the system.


    In other words: Please describe the complete setup including every single thing that has a cable connection to the main machine. Please follow every single wire and name what's connected there. Wouldn't be the first time that a ground loop from a sat receiver connected to the same amplifier as the Amiga causes weird behaviour.

    Hi Jens, apologies for the delay responding.


    I am running Amiga OS 3.2.1 on physical 3.2 ROMs, on a 1d4 motherboard, which was recapped and refurbished in 2017. I have a Rastport KA60 with SD card adapter, with a 32Gb Sandisk MicroSD card connected to the onboard IDE. A TF1260 with full rev.6 060 is installed in the expansion port, with an angled CF to IDE adapter installed on the TF1260 IDE header, with a further 8Gb Sandisk SD card installed (used for a MacOS partition in Shapeshifter).


    The Indivision Mk2cr is connected and routed via DVI cable to the rear expansion port, and is connected to a Samsung monitor via an HDMI switch (shared with my PC and work laptop), outputting at 1024x768 in 32 colours, with 1.5Mb free chip memory on bootup. Lastly, I have a Solas board installed on the onboard clockport, which runs a fan and temperature sensor for the indivision (temp sensor reads 33-35 degrees celsius in normal operation), plus a temperature sensor for the TF1260 core and surface temperature, as well as an environment module (providing ambient temperature, pressure and humidity). A real time clock module is connected to one of the free clockports on the Solas. An LED strip is also installed on the Solas.


    Audio is routed via a Datel Midimaster (in the serial port) to a Yamaha TG-100 midi module. RCA L/R audio output is also mixed via this unit, and audio output is fed into a Logitech desktop speaker system.


    The whole setup is powered by an A500+ power supply (I figured the A1200 unit would fall a bit short on supplying all the necessary power). In the last few weeks I've streamed to Twitch with no issues over several hours of gaming each time: see below:


    https://youtu.be/y2avVpwPGAY

    https://youtu.be/8GdXDjuyXV8


    The issue only manifested in the past week (basically just before I raised this ticket).


    You mention odd behaviour being caused by all kinds of things, but I would note that nothing has changed with this setup in the time prior to the issue starting and now, and it had been happily running this way for the past year (since installing the TF1260 and Solas board).


    I'm also advised by other Indivision users that this is not uncommon, and may have something to do with the connection on the Lisa chip. With that in mind, I will be taking the unit off and cleaning all the contacts with IPA to see if that helps. I will also be testing the system with a Meanwell power supply to rule out power issues.


    It may just be that the unit has reached a point in its lifetime where it naturally begins to fail?


    As an aside, as I've been writing this, I switched on the Amiga from cold. On bootup there were a lot of green interference lines, and the screen blanked several times in the first few minutes of operation, and consistently since then. I doubt therefore that temperature is an issue. Speaking of which, after 30 minutes of idle operation at 1024x768x32 colours, the Indivision temperature sensor is now reading 33.5 degrees celsius.


    Thanks in advance,


    AndrewC

    Quote from amimmortal

    Rastport KA60

    Unbuffered, not recommended.


    Quote from amimmortal

    via an HDMI switch (shared with my PC and work laptop)

    That's three units that MUST share the same ground. How is this ensured?


    Quote from amimmortal

    A500+ power supply

    That's also three decades old now. Was it ever re-capped? Did you adjust the voltage after adding so much power consuming stuff to your system?


    Quote from amimmortal

    You mention odd behaviour being caused by all kinds of things, but I would note that nothing has changed with this setup in the time prior to the issue starting and now, and it had been happily running this way for the past year (since installing the TF1260 and Solas board).

    With all the things that are tied together, each having their own power supply, it only takes a single unit of those power supplies to be plugged in the other way round, and the Y-capacitor of that PSU is on phase instead of "null", introducing ground humm. Also, "nothing has changed" is easy to say, but in reality, the electrolytic caps of *any* power supply are ageing. They have work to do, they get hot, and by getting hot, their internal resistance goes up, making the temperature and ageing problem even worse. They do not age linear, but exponentially, so sometimes it appears to be "from one day to another" when in reality it's been a long process that you just didn't observe, because the caps were doing their job.


    Quote from amimmortal

    It may just be that the unit has reached a point in its lifetime where it naturally begins to fail?

    Yes, and I'd start with the A500+ power supply.


    Quote from amimmortal

    As an aside, as I've been writing this, I switched on the Amiga from cold. On bootup there were a lot of green interference lines, and the screen blanked several times in the first few minutes of operation, and consistently since then. I doubt therefore that temperature is an issue.

    It's just the opposite: An electrolytic cap that's dried out will fail badly at lower temp, but slowly get a part of it's capacity back when warming up.


    Jens

    HI Jens,


    Is the fact the Rastport is unbuffered relevant in this context? I can't see how that would interact here.


    What I would say is that I have output the display simultaneously via the composite output to a Samsung TV and the indivision to a separate monitor, and whilst the indivision output is dropping 2 to 3 times a minute (always preceded by green lines and interference), the comp output is rock solid. That being the case, if no video artefacts or dropouts are present in the composite output, would the indivision not be the common denominator?


    I still plan to remove all peripherals (SD adapter, TF1260, Solas etc) and test with the meanwell supply to rule out a) power issues, and b) interactions with the other peripherals.


    However, if, after carefully cleaning the contacts (as I have been advised to do by other owners of the Mk2cr) and running the A1200 in "stock" mode via the meanwell supply, the issues persist, I think it would be reasonable to assume that the indivision is causing the issue...


    I'll keep you posted.


    Thanks,


    AndrewC

    Who said you should try with a known-bad MeanWell PSU?


    What I assume is happening here is that the PLLs of Indivision lose sync, leading to a visible drop-out. When PLLs sync again, the pictue comes back.


    This loss of sync can happen because there is noice on power. Note that "power" includes not only the +5V rail, but also the return path, and that's GND. Ground noise can be even worse than ripple, which the MeanWell PSUs are notorious for. So the main goal of asking you to remove connections to other devices is to reduce the number of ground noise paths. It can be as simple as your audio equipment, if that has a connection to some Antenna/cable Radio/TV thing.

    OK.


    I have a known good A1200 PSU, which has been refurbished. I will remove all peripherals and connect the stock A1200 with the Indivision in situ. The Indivision will be connected directly to my Dell monitor, rather than via the HDMI splitter, and the monitor will be connected to a separate wall mains socket. No audio equipment will be connected.


    Would this satisfy the testing requirements? So, if the issues persist with that setup, can we safely assume an issue with the Indivision?


    As an aside, it's not like the Indivision is under any kind of warranty - it's 6 years old. If anything I would probably just upgrade to a Mk3...


    Thanks,


    AndrewC

    Quote from amimmortal

    Would this satisfy the testing requirements? So, if the issues persist with that setup, can we safely assume an issue with the Indivision?

    Not "safely", but it will drastically reduce the amount of places to look for the cause. Don't worry about the age of the unit - we provide support regardless of the age of the product.


    Is this a PAL or an NTSC A1200?

    OK - the PLL parameters need to be set for both, PAL and NTSC source clocks: PAL uses 28.37516MHz and NTSC uses 28.63636MHz. Indivision uses this source pixel clock as the basis for all local clocks (memory and output pixel clock), and the difference between these source clocks has been taken into account back when we developed the MK2 model.


    The crystal of the Amiga hardly ever breaks. However, if it does, users are in trouble "big time", as the frequency is hard to find. Some repair shops used 28.322MHz crystals from old VGA cards, because the frequency is "close enough". I'm also guilty of using this frequency on my very first product ever, luckily only on the very fisrt production run of less than 200 units: The Graffifi video card. You might run into the kind of problem you're describing if the A1200 frequency is off.



    Note that crystals are mechanical components. They can fail due to mechanical stress, for example if a unit falls on the floor.

    Cool - how would one test the crystal for issues? Or would it be a case of ruling out everything else, then fitting a new crystal to the motherboard and testing again?


    I've not had a chance to pull it all apart to test but will let you know when I do.


    Thanks,


    AndrewC

    Unfortunately, the crystal is soldered and the frequency is so special that you will most likely not find it in any electronics store.


    I'd really reduce the number of connections to other devices to a minimum, so a ground loop can be excluded first.

    I'm reliably informed that the TF1260 would not function if the crystal was malfunctioning, so I'm happy to discount that. I'm going to reset the Indivision to default settings and see if that helps...

    Update:


    The first thing I did was reset the Indivision back to default settings and reinstalled the files.


    I then cleaned the contacts on the Lisa chip and the Indivision socket with IPA, reinstalled it and disconnected everything else from the motherboard (I have a Bifrost Heimdall edition installed which remained connected).


    For all intents and purposes it was configured as a stock Amiga 1200.


    I also disconnected audio cables - only the mouse was connected.


    I restarted and it booted to the kickstart screen. I loaded a game from floppy and within a few moments the green stripes appeared and the display blanked.


    It then occurred to me that I still had the DVI output going via the HDMI switch, so I used a DVI cable directly from the Amiga Indivision output to the Dell monitor.


    Needless to say, it appears to be fine now, even after reinstalling all the expansions.


    In future, I will start with the most obvious/ likely cause and work back from there.


    If the issue returns, I'll update this thread, but for now, sincere apologies for the wild goose chase!


    Thanks,


    AndrewC

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