Some graphical symbols on keyboard the same ?!

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Don't Panic. Please wash hands.
  • Hello !

    Is it a normal phenomenon that CBM+G and CBM+H results in the same symbol ?!=O
    And same for CBM+N and CBM+M ?! This
    happens with both my standalone and my C64 docked Chameleon !

    Was going to apply stickers on a keyboard when I discovered it !
    Cheers !

  • That has nothing to do with Chameleon :) Commodore "fixed" the charset for the 40 columns by making all vertical lines 2 pixel wide, and indeed the result is that a few of the PETSCII symbols are now the same. You could load the vic20 chargen ROM (find it on Zimmers.net or in the VICE data directory), then you get the original Symbols (and the mentioned ones will be different).

  • I did not know about this. Now I feel I have been living a lie since 1983 :-) I will have to go down my rabbit hole for a few days now to discuss things with myself. heheheeheheh....

  • haha tested Vic20 chargen in Vice - odd characters :-D


    sudo mv /usr/local/share/vice/C64/chargen /usr/local/share/vice/C64/bkchargen

    sudo mv /usr/local/share/vice/vic20/chargen /usr/local/share/vice/C64/chargen


    to undo:


    sudo mv /usr/local/share/vice/C64/bkchargen /usr/local/share/vice/C64/chargen


    :D

  • Espen: Apparently singlepixel vertical lines did not look good on TVs !
    The PET which the PETSCII originated on had monitors from the start.

  • Yes, remember the C64 (just like the VIC20) was designed to be used with a TV via RF connection. The C64 uses twice the video bandwidth, and that made single pixel vertical lines look bad under those conditions.

  • Well -- hires graphic modes had single pixel width and that looks quite nice, so I think they did it not for the esthetical reasons but for either A) Lazyness/time constrains OR B) Something else :-D :-D I dunno... since hires looks nice, it would be strange that they'd claim charset 1pixel width lines would not.

    Or am I missing somthing ? :)

  • Also, you need to consider that the C64 was developed in USA, where NTSC is the colour standard. The lower 3.58MHz colour carrier means that single pixels would generate frequencies that "bleed" into the colour carrier spectrum. This is not the case in PAL-land with a higher colour carrier: The pixel clock is slightly lower, increasing the distance from the colour frequency spectrum far enough for single pixels to work fine in PAL countries.


    Using S-Video, you won't see any problem like this. However, Commodore aimed for a plain old TV as a replacement for the (rather expensive) monitor, and it had to work worldwide - maybe even "primarily" in USA, where the excess income of average households was way higher in the early 1980s than it was in Europe.