Indivision ECS V2 ghosting

Caution: Non registered users only see threads and messages in the currently selected language, which is determined by their browser. Please create an account and log in to see all content by default. This is a limitation of the forum software.


Also users that are not logged in can not create new threads. This is a, unfortunately needed, counter measure against spam. Please create an account and log in to start new threads.

Don't Panic. Please wash hands.
  • While the pictures you're posting here truly show a horrible picture, there MUST be something else wrong, as I have never seen such bad ghosting in any of the test scenarios here - and we've tried quite a few. Check cable, grounding, output pixel clock and most of all: Power supply.

  • Hi Jens


    Do you have a feel for when the patch board would be available.


    I ask because I want to buy the Ace2b but will need to pay for proxy shipping as I'm in the UK, was looking to try and combine the parcels


    Also I'm ok with soldering and can do larger smd components, but the Indivision has really small and close together pins on some of the chips, what would be required to do the upgrade


    Many thanks

  • I can't tell - the goal is to have a PCB that has solder-spots on the side, but I don't yet know if this is possible. If it works out, you remove the three transistors and place a circuit board on there that has galvanized side-contacts, so you only need to drop a blob of solder on about ten spots. Removal of the three transistors will likely be the most difficult task.

  • I can't tell - the goal is to have a PCB that has solder-spots on the side, but I don't yet know if this is possible. If it works out, you remove the three transistors and place a circuit board on there that has galvanized side-contacts, so you only need to drop a blob of solder on about ten spots. Removal of the three transistors will likely be the most difficult task.

    Excellent, thank you

  • While the pictures you're posting here truly show a horrible picture, there MUST be something else wrong, as I have never seen such bad ghosting in any of the test scenarios here - and we've tried quite a few. Check cable, grounding, output pixel clock and most of all: Power supply.

    Hi Jens.Thank you for the immediate response. I will check that you told me and i will answer you.

  • While the pictures you're posting here truly show a horrible picture, there MUST be something else wrong, as I have never seen such bad ghosting in any of the test scenarios here - and we've tried quite a few. Check cable, grounding, output pixel clock and most of all: Power supply.

    Hi Jens. It was bad vga cable. There is a very little ghosting now almost nothing. Thanks for the advice.

  • I can't tell - the goal is to have a PCB that has solder-spots on the side, but I don't yet know if this is possible. If it works out, you remove the three transistors and place a circuit board on there that has galvanized side-contacts, so you only need to drop a blob of solder on about ten spots. Removal of the three transistors will likely be the most difficult task.

    Would it be possible for people who are skilled in soldering to change those transistors for higher quality ones and get rid of the shadowing problem? Also, are those the same transistors you used in the TC64 V2? But then again, I assume one would have to change alot of other components in addition to the transistors?


    We are talking about these 3 transistors?

  • Been messing back and forth with Indivision ECS V1 and V2 between A600s and A500s. Also using a medium size LCD TV now instead of the small BenQ BL702As or BL912.


    Took the ECS V1 and put in my A500. What I found was that it had quite a bit of ghosting when installed in my A500. In my A600s it had very little ghosting. I found the reason for that. In my A600s I have the VGA connector screwed to the RF shielding where the TV modulator used to be. So it got proper grounding from the RF shield.


    I noticed the same thing when I installed the ECS 2 the same way in my A600. It had noticeable less ghosting than if I had it in my A500 or didn't have the VGA connector secured against the RF shielding. It still had a bit more ghosting VS ECS V1, but was much improved over having the VGA cable not secured to the RF shielding or installed in the A500 with the cable loose.


    So what I did in my A500 I installed the grounding wire that comes with the ECS V2 and secured it to the VGA connector instead of to the motherboard. This did improve the ghosting/smearing quite a bit. Now I think it's quite acceptable.

  • turrican9 Possible to post an image of the grounding wire to the VGA connector?

    Mine is now also on the motherboard, but the the wire is too short to connect to the VGA connector. My VGA connector is in a plexi box that hold the ACA500+

    Images

    A1200 Rev2B AmigaOS 3.2| SanDisk CF64GB HDD | Blizzard 1230 IV 64MB FPU 68882/50 | Indivision AGA MK3 | CA-PSU | Eizo S1933 | Bose Companion 2 series III

    A500 Rev6A AmigaOS 3.2| SanDisk CF16GB HDD | ACA500Plus V2 / ACA1221lc | Indivision ECS V3 | ACE2b | CA-PSU | Eizo S1933 | Bose Companion 2 series III

    iAmiga 27" :huh: | AmigaOS 3.2 FS-UAE | SDD 1 TB | RTG by Picaso96 2560x1440

  • turrican9 Possible to post an image of the grounding wire to the VGA connector?

    Mine is now also on the motherboard, but the the wire is too short to connect to the VGA connector. My VGA connector is in a plexi box that hold the ACA500+

    In these pictures I am using the ECS V1 cable for the ECS V2. Because I was swapping back and forth. The ECS 2 cable is installed in the A600 you see in these pictures. The best result I get in the A600. probably because the VGA connector is secured to the RF shield. But installing the grounding on the A500 as shown in the picture does improve the ghosting to acceptable levels.


    I also tried having two grounding wires at the same time. Both secured to the ECS V2. One going to the motherboard grounding and one to the VGA connector. That did not improve it further. In fact, using the grounding like it's supposed to, from ECS 2 to motherboard does not improve anything for me. Only when I ground the VGA connector do I see a noticeable difference. Ideally it should have been secured to the main RF shield like shown in the A600 picture. I tried having the VGA cable loose in the A600 VS having it secured to the RF shielding, big difference with regards to ghosting.


    This is not a permanent solution for me. As you can see I too have the plexi case and probably want the VGA connector over there. I may make some longer grounding cables and experiment.

  • .....

    This is not a permanent solution for me. As you can see I too have the plexi case and probably want the VGA connector over there. I may make some longer grounding cables and experiment.

    Thx for the info!


    I will try this as a preliminary fix at the end of next week.

    Yesterday I watched the DOS demo (made by Andromeda) and the ghosting was so bad ... that I turned off the A500 🤷🏻‍♂️

    A1200 Rev2B AmigaOS 3.2| SanDisk CF64GB HDD | Blizzard 1230 IV 64MB FPU 68882/50 | Indivision AGA MK3 | CA-PSU | Eizo S1933 | Bose Companion 2 series III

    A500 Rev6A AmigaOS 3.2| SanDisk CF16GB HDD | ACA500Plus V2 / ACA1221lc | Indivision ECS V3 | ACE2b | CA-PSU | Eizo S1933 | Bose Companion 2 series III

    iAmiga 27" :huh: | AmigaOS 3.2 FS-UAE | SDD 1 TB | RTG by Picaso96 2560x1440

  • Thx for the info!


    I will try this as a preliminary fix at the end of next week.

    Yesterday I watched the DOS demo (made by Andromeda) and the ghosting was so bad ... that I turned off the A500 🤷🏻‍♂️

    I tested this demo. This demo seems to show ghosting/smearing more than anything else I've tried.


    So to sum it up:


    Amiga 500/A500 Plus with Indivision ECS V1 and V2 has the worst ghosting. Adding ground wire to the VGA port improves it, but ghosting is still very visible depending on background colours and so on. ECS V2 is a tad worse than V1 on this setup but they have slightly different shadowing ghosting placement on the right of the objects. Both show the ghosting very clearly in the DOS demo. Especially with the black and white triangle cube spinning. Keep in mind that the ghosting between ECS V1 and ECS V2 cast the ghosting shadows a little bit different. This can be seen clearly on a kickstart 2/3 screen. Where the ghosting from ECS V2 shows mostly on the disk animation while on the ECS 1 it can show as shadows from the Amiga logo aswell in the worst case scenarios. While in the best scenarios on A600 the ECS V1 barely shows ghosting on the disk animation and the ones from the Amiga logo are almost not visible.


    A600 which is the best scenario when the VGA connector is secured to the shielding in place of the TV modulator. With Indivision ECS V1 the ghosting is reduced quite a bit compared to the A500 scenario (even with the grounding wire attached to the VGA port in the A500 scenario). The ghosting is still clearly visible in the DOS demo. With the ECS V2 in this scenario it shows a tad more ghosting than the ECS V1. Not a huge difference.


    As a side note, how I route the VGA cables inside the A600s matter when I use accelerators like ACA 620 or Furia. I have seen these accelerators introduce quite a bit of noise and even ghosting if I route the VGA cable a certain way. Best way seems to be in my picture above.


    I have also noticed in the past that at least my original ACA 500 + accelerator did introduce noise in the picture when using ECS V1. Especially in 50Hz mode. This noise did not worsen the ghosting as far as I remember, but added general noise in the screen. Not so sure the ACA 500 Plus with no accelerator will affect this much.


    I can imagine that having the VGA cable running over your accelerator, like shown in your picture, Paul, will probably worsen things.


    So conclusion is that even in the best scenarios both the ECS V1 and V2 has noticeable ghosting, but the V1 has quite a bit less. Still noticeable. ECS V2 is acceptable in the best A600 scenario. However, demos like DOS may not be acceptable for certain people with the ECS V2. Even ECS V1 will show noticeable ghosting here. Ghosting can be reduced quite a bit by doing things discussed here, but not eliminated.

  • ...I can imagine that having the VGA cable running over your accelerator, like shown in your picture, Paul, will probably worsen things.

    ...

    By next weekend I will try with a longer ground cable and I will protect the VGA cable with some silver paper. A person would try anything to get a better picture.

    The DOS demo on my A1200 with the Indi AGA MK3 works without ghosting. Perfect picture, nothing to complain about.

    A1200 Rev2B AmigaOS 3.2| SanDisk CF64GB HDD | Blizzard 1230 IV 64MB FPU 68882/50 | Indivision AGA MK3 | CA-PSU | Eizo S1933 | Bose Companion 2 series III

    A500 Rev6A AmigaOS 3.2| SanDisk CF16GB HDD | ACA500Plus V2 / ACA1221lc | Indivision ECS V3 | ACE2b | CA-PSU | Eizo S1933 | Bose Companion 2 series III

    iAmiga 27" :huh: | AmigaOS 3.2 FS-UAE | SDD 1 TB | RTG by Picaso96 2560x1440

  • By next weekend I will try with a longer ground cable and I will protect the VGA cable with some silver paper. A person would try anything to get a better picture.

    The DOS demo on my A1200 with the Indi AGA MK3 works without ghosting. Perfect picture, nothing to complain about.

    Is that with the VGA used on the AGA MK3? I tried my AGA MK2 with a DVI to VGA adapter and did not see any ghosting in DOS demo. It may be because the MK2 is a digital output device by nature. So even if I use a DVI to VGA it's added after the output. I assume the same holds true for the AGA MK3. It's a digital output device by nature.


    ECS V1 and V2 are analogue output units


    Next thing I wanna try is ferrite cores on the internal VGA cable that goes from the ECS V2 to the VGA out port. To see if the image can be improved further

  • Is that with the VGA used on the AGA MK3?


    Connected with the VGA cable to the BenQ BL702a, that MK3 is a dream! Jens made it too good 😀

    A1200 Rev2B AmigaOS 3.2| SanDisk CF64GB HDD | Blizzard 1230 IV 64MB FPU 68882/50 | Indivision AGA MK3 | CA-PSU | Eizo S1933 | Bose Companion 2 series III

    A500 Rev6A AmigaOS 3.2| SanDisk CF16GB HDD | ACA500Plus V2 / ACA1221lc | Indivision ECS V3 | ACE2b | CA-PSU | Eizo S1933 | Bose Companion 2 series III

    iAmiga 27" :huh: | AmigaOS 3.2 FS-UAE | SDD 1 TB | RTG by Picaso96 2560x1440

  • Phil, turrican9 can u guys put in here the info about where u purchased the ACA500Plus plexi box from?

    Thanks¡

    From this German website, I think you have a choice for the old ACA500 (small dismo) and the new ACA500 (large dismo - like in my picture)

    https://www.plexilaser.de/navi.php?a=7362

    A1200 Rev2B AmigaOS 3.2| SanDisk CF64GB HDD | Blizzard 1230 IV 64MB FPU 68882/50 | Indivision AGA MK3 | CA-PSU | Eizo S1933 | Bose Companion 2 series III

    A500 Rev6A AmigaOS 3.2| SanDisk CF16GB HDD | ACA500Plus V2 / ACA1221lc | Indivision ECS V3 | ACE2b | CA-PSU | Eizo S1933 | Bose Companion 2 series III

    iAmiga 27" :huh: | AmigaOS 3.2 FS-UAE | SDD 1 TB | RTG by Picaso96 2560x1440

  • I see only the new one this moment (large dismo) You have the choice transparant or smoke one

    A1200 Rev2B AmigaOS 3.2| SanDisk CF64GB HDD | Blizzard 1230 IV 64MB FPU 68882/50 | Indivision AGA MK3 | CA-PSU | Eizo S1933 | Bose Companion 2 series III

    A500 Rev6A AmigaOS 3.2| SanDisk CF16GB HDD | ACA500Plus V2 / ACA1221lc | Indivision ECS V3 | ACE2b | CA-PSU | Eizo S1933 | Bose Companion 2 series III

    iAmiga 27" :huh: | AmigaOS 3.2 FS-UAE | SDD 1 TB | RTG by Picaso96 2560x1440