Indivision ECS V2 ghosting

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Don't Panic. Please wash hands.
  • A good game to see how bad the ghosting really is with the ECS V2 is Disposable Hero. At the start of the first level the ghosting looks horrible. Even with scanlines on. Does not matter what resolution or config one uses. Ghosting will be there no matter what. I instead plugged my BenQ BL 912 into RGB port. Looks so much better. I see absolutely no ghosting.

  • It's not game-specific, but resolution specific: Reduce output pixel clock, and the input stage of the monitor will act much more like the traditional output stage. No wonder that it works nicely with 15kHz horizontal and 7/14MHz pixel clock :-)

  • It's not game-specific, but resolution specific: Reduce output pixel clock, and the input stage of the monitor will act much more like the traditional output stage. No wonder that it works nicely with 15kHz horizontal and 7/14MHz pixel clock :-)

    I know it's not game specific. But certain colours show the ghosting even more.I hear you. But that doesn't explain why me and so many other people have little to no ghosting on ECS V1. I have even replicated the pixel clocks and made the same profiles the ECS V1 is outputting, on the ECS V2. People are reporting ghosting with all kinds of monitors and resolutions. There must be a reason why there is no ghosting on V1 but alot of ghosting on V2. ECS V1 is not outputting 15KHz. It's outputting 31KHz + and with no ghosting. If there is some kind of hardware mod we can do to get rid of this ghosting it would be nice if you could post some info so people who are able to solder could do the mod themselves.

  • So I tried one of my ECS V1 again. And holy moly does the ECS V1 have noticeable better picture quality VS ECS V2. The picture is more clear and vibrant and no noticeable ghosting. As I said, I even replicated the 62Hz and 50Hz profile the V1 has, with my ECS V2. Made sure the monitor switched to the same resolution, Hz, pixelclock and everything. The ECS V1 simply has much better picture quality.


    this must be different parts used in the output circuitry between V1 and V2. With higher quality parts in the V1 or something else that went wrong with V2. If the V2 had the same picture quality the V1 has I would be a happy man.


    Edit: The Turbo Chameleon 64 V2 has the exact same ghosting the ECS V2 has. Using the minimig core with the TC64 V2 I can compare directly. Exactly the same ghosting and even less sharp VS ECS V2. minimig switches my BenQ monitors to 720x576. Looking at ECS V1 in 50Hz mode, which also swtiches my monitors to 720x576 I have a crystal clear and very vibrant picture with no ghosting.


    I wouldn't be surprised if TC64 V1 has a much nicer picture VS TC64 V2. I suspect this has to do with components used in ECS V2/TC64 V2 VS ECS V1/TC64 V1. Probably lower quality components in the VGA circuitry or something.

  • I have the ECS V2 back in one of my A600s. I defineately think there is less noticeable ghosting/smearing in this setup VS the A500 Plus. It's still worse than ECS V1. ECS V1 has very slight ghosting.


    Honestly, with the ECS V2 in my A600 I think the picture is very acceptable. The ghosting is only apparent in certain games that that has certain colour combinations. Like in the beginning of the first level in Disposable Heroes.


    The smearing on the right side of icons in workbench is not that visible in this setup. I have to put it back in my A500 Plus again to compare. Or maybe I'm getting old and my eyesight is failing me.

  • I'll try to optimize the mod, so fewer components and bodge wires are required. Otherwise, I fear that too many Indivision ECS V2 will die in the attempt of applying this mod.

    And some new will be buyed :-)

    Where to find documentation of that mod?

  • I think Indivision should come clean and te

    I didn't get around to making that patch-board. We're busy with Indivision AGA MK3 and the power supplies.

    At the same time you could tell us how to rebuild the VGA circuitry on the TC64 V2. So we have a chance at getting the same picture quality the ECS V1, TC64 V1, AGA MK1 and AGA MK2 (when using VGA) has.

  • Well, this is my solution (image quality is low from my camera)...

    I set the blacktuner lower, interlaced on, and some creative pixels as background. Looks quite nice on the screen and the issue is hardly seen as it stops at another pixel.

    in most games it isnt visible enough to get anoing.


    Note that i dont use a samsung monitors, but at the moment LC-Power, Iyama, LG end philips. Only with the Indi ECSII i have ghosting (not with TC64V2, Indi AGA II en III on VGA)


    Apart from this, the image is good.

  • Sorry, contract work got in the way. However, the good news is that I got a reel of a lower-cost RF transistor that I want to try for the mod, to make it more affordable.

  • Hi Jens any update on the ECS v2 ghosting problem. I fitted the one I purchased a month or two ago over the weekend and the ghosting was immediately visible on my HP lcd monitor. Rev8a A500+ (recapped) A500 PSU (recapped).

    No ghosting using RGB scart and ECS denise. The same monitor has no issues with ghosting when plugged into my Indi AGA Mk3. Like others have said WB palette changes and font size changes do make a little difference but it's still distracting.

  • Sorry, didn't have time to work on that. I do have my own prototype where I'm using an extremely high-frequency RF transistor and adapted output stage that does produce a better picture on the offending monitors, but this is way too expensive for a mod-board. I did order a different type of transistor to try with that mod, and it's been sitting here for quite a while, but work just keeps piling up. It's not forgotten - once I verified that other transistor type positive, I can make an appointment for CE testing (or at least get a quote first - that's the expensive part!).

  • Sorry, didn't have time to work on that. I do have my own prototype where I'm using an extremely high-frequency RF transistor and adapted output stage that does produce a better picture on the offending monitors, but this is way too expensive for a mod-board. I did order a different type of transistor to try with that mod, and it's been sitting here for quite a while, but work just keeps piling up. It's not forgotten - once I verified that other transistor type positive, I can make an appointment for CE testing (or at least get a quote first - that's the expensive part!).

    Do you think your fix would be doable for people who can do quite a bit of soldering themselves? If you list the parts needed and what to do people who are skilled enough could order parts themselves and solder.


    Also, you mention CE testing. Sounds like there may be a new revision of ECS V2 for sale in the future?

  • Do you think your fix would be doable for people who can do quite a bit of soldering themselves? If you list the parts needed and what to do people who are skilled enough could order parts themselves and solder.

    I intend to make a small board that already has all components mounted. What you need to do then is to remove a few parts and put the board with the new output stage over these components and put a few solder spots on - probably under ten. Although this may sound simple, it still requires a well-regulated soldering iron with tiny tip. Especially removing the old output stage may be challenging for someone who never did lead-free SMD soldering.

    Also, you mention CE testing. Sounds like there may be a new revision of ECS V2 for sale in the future?

    New CE testing is required, because the new output stage is a critical part of CE compliance. 165MHz pixel clock results in max. frequencies of 82.5MHz, with high-energy harmonics at 247.5 MHz and 412.5 MHz. I need to make sure that these peaks are well below the limit line, otherwise I should not offer such a rework-kit. I do expect these peaks to go higher, as I'm using 2GHz RF transistors instead of general-purpose 300MHz NPN transistors as final driver stage. This results in much sharper edges, but also higher probability of unwanted EMI.

  • I intend to make a small board that already has all components mounted. What you need to do then is to remove a few parts and put the board with the new output stage over these components and put a few solder spots on - probably under ten. Although this may sound simple, it still requires a well-regulated soldering iron with tiny tip. Especially removing the old output stage may be challenging for someone who never did lead-free SMD soldering.

    New CE testing is required, because the new output stage is a critical part of CE compliance. 165MHz pixel clock results in max. frequencies of 82.5MHz, with high-energy harmonics at 247.5 MHz and 412.5 MHz. I need to make sure that these peaks are well below the limit line, otherwise I should not offer such a rework-kit. I do expect these peaks to go higher, as I'm using 2GHz RF transistors instead of general-purpose 300MHz NPN transistors as final driver stage. This results in much sharper edges, but also higher probability of unwanted EMI.

    So you would sell these boards to us ECS V2 owners? Also, when this mod is ready, will you ship new ECS V2s with the mod already in place?

  • So you would sell these boards to us ECS V2 owners?

    That's the plan, yes.


    Also, when this mod is ready, will you ship new ECS V2s with the mod already in place?

    Unlikely. It's quite some work, and it would easily increase the price of Indivision ECS V2 by 25-30 EUR. For a mod that's required only for monitors with a certain input stage, this is too much to be "standard". There is a chance for this to be an option in the shop, though.

  • That's the plan, yes.


    Unlikely. It's quite some work, and it would easily increase the price of Indivision ECS V2 by 25-30 EUR. For a mod that's required only for monitors with a certain input stage, this is too much to be "standard". There is a chance for this to be an option in the shop, though.

    When would you guess you will have these boards ready and for sale?