Posts by turrican9

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Don't Panic. Please wash hands.

    I think Indivision should come clean and te

    I didn't get around to making that patch-board. We're busy with Indivision AGA MK3 and the power supplies.

    At the same time you could tell us how to rebuild the VGA circuitry on the TC64 V2. So we have a chance at getting the same picture quality the ECS V1, TC64 V1, AGA MK1 and AGA MK2 (when using VGA) has.

    So of course I haven't recieved my VGA to HDMI converters yet. But I've been looking at another video from custom64 (Now named just Daniel Renner on youtube). Video is called 'C64 related - Turbo Chameleon V2 - new Minimig Amiga core, sneak prev new C64 core'.


    In this video we see some fullscreen recordings from the minimig core. He is of course using his VGA2HDMI converter talked about earlier in this thread. And with fullscreen in this video we can clearly see the quite nasty ghosting/smearing when he shows the kickstart 3.1 screen from the minimig core. You can clearly see the smearing on the right side of the Amiga logo and also on the right of the moving floppy disk. So VGA to HDMI converter will not help. Will look even worse in real life.


    TC64V2 and ECS V2 output quality is just bad.


    If Jens would come forward and tell us how we could rebuild the VGA circuitry for the TC64 V2 and ECS V2 to get the same quality picture ECS V1, TC64 V1, AGA MK1 and AGA MK2 has that would be nice.

    What converter is he using? I was skipping through the video but couldn't even catch a glimpse of it.

    There is a small glimps of it in the video. Where he shows two different types of VGA to HDMI converters he has tried. The one he says works well with scrolling and converting the signals are the 'VGA2HDMI'. If you search on ebay for VGA2HDMI or VGATOHDMI you will find the same one he is using. At least they look the same. The innards may be different. Who knows. It's a little square box in either white of black versions. It says on the outer top shell 'VGA2HDMI' or another type has 'VGATOHDMI' written on it.


    I can probably not post links in this forum anyway.


    I don't have high hopes but it's worth a try because in his recordings I could not see ghosting/smearing. Most people agree that the image quality from the TC64 V2 are bad. Same with the ECS V2. I suspect bad/cheap components in the output circuitry. Hence there will not be any support from this forum. There are way too many reports of these problems for it to be isolated to specific monitors or setups. I don't believe so many monitors are to blame. It's the source (TC64 V2/ECS V2) which causes the ghosting/smearing. Oh, and does not matter how high quality of a VGA cable one uses. The ghosting is like if I try a low quality VGA cable with no ferrite cores on the ECS V1. That is how it looks on TC64 V2/ECS V2 no matter how high quality VGA cables I use. Or other people have tried.


    I've tried probably 6 or 7 different monitors and TVs with VGA. Exact same ghosting. If it was certain monitors that was at fault I would at least see variations between how bad the ghosting/smearing was between different screens. Also, take a look in the ECS V2 ghosting thread. So many people with all kinds of setups and monitors. Even Dell monitors which Jens mention further up. Does not matter. Same problem. Take a look in the facebook group for TC64 V2. Same problem.


    And again, same monitors and cables show little to no ghosting on ECS V1, AGA MK2 (when using VGA).


    So the little hope I have is that converting the signal from VGA to HDMI with that converter may get rid of the ghosting. Based on my observations from the video mentioned earlier. With that said, the author of the video said in one of his videos that the TC64 V2 has a bad picture quality.

    My personal favourites at the time were Dell monitors with 1280x1024 pixels.


    Jens

    So I was watching Custom64s (youtube site now named 'Daniel Renner') review of TC64V2 docking station closely. I couldn't see any ghosting/smearing in his recordings when he was using the VGA output of the TC64V2. It would be especially noticeable on the minimig kickstart 3.1 screen. Yet I couldn't see any smearing on the right side of the objects in his recordings.


    The difference between his setup and mine is that he was using a VGA to HDMI converter. So I have orderered a couple of the exact same VGA to HDMI converters he is using in that video. My hope is that these VGA to HDMI converters handles the VGA signal from TC64V2 better than most LCD screens. So maybe when I try VGA to HDMI to DVI on my BenQ BL912 this will remove my ghosting/smearing. I also have HDMI to VGA converters laying around. So I could even go VGA to HDMI to VGA.


    If this works it will probably work for the ECS V2 aswell.


    Will keep you posted about this. It will take at least 10 days to get the converter.

    The ghosting problem is really something that varies extremely with the used screen(s) and screen refresh rate. Chameleon is designed "by the book" for 75 Ohms-terminated RGB lines, but it appears like especially Samsung monitors don't like that bog-standard-signal at all. The monitor cable won't help much, but reducing the output resolution/pixel clock will, as the AD converters in the monitor(s) appear to vary a lot. Looking at standard AD chips used in LCD monitors, I see that they are all AD-coupled, so there's quite some software involved on the monitor side. This software part can obviously be fooled if we violate CE recommendations and add high-frequency content on the RGB lines. That said, I don't recommend removing the filter caps and replacing the driver transistors for faster types, as it may solve the ghosting problem, but result in EMI problems.

    I've tried all kinds of LCD monitors. They all show quite bad ghosting/smearing to the right of the objects. Just like with the Indivision ECS V2. There is no difference. They all show the same ghosting/smearing. Might I ask what kind of monitors you have tested that shows little to no ghosting?


    Also, the only review of the TC64 V2 is from C64 Customs. He aswell spoke of bad image quality. Facebook group says the same. Yet there is little to no ghosting with the Indivision ECS V1 with the same monitors and cables. I also hear reports of the TC64 V1 has much better picture quality than TC64 V2. Here the other day a guy from the facebook group had just bought himself a TC64 V2 and he was shocked and dissapointed by how bad the picture quality was VS his TC64 V1. He also tried all kinds of monitors.


    You say pixelclock. No matter what resolution one tried from the TC64 V2 the ghosting is still the same.


    You may have done it 'by the book' as you say, but something is wrong when your older products have superior picture quality. You also have a thread for ECS V2 that is full of people reporting the ghosting issues. As said, the TC64 V2 has the exact same problem the ECS V2 has.


    Now if there is a solution that involves changing surface mount components on the TC64 V2 and ECS V2 I would like to know so I can fix them myself. If 90% of monitors shows the ghosting problem on your TC64 V2 and ECS V2 but not on TC64 V1 and ECS V1 then the problem is not the monitors, but the source.


    Edit: A good example is like with my ECS V1, if I have it set to 62Hz mode it will switch my BenQ BL 702A and BL912 to 1024x600 with little to no ghosting. I have to use a really low quality VGA cable to re-produce the same ghosting the ECS V2 and TC64 V2 has. With the ECS V1 I can look at the pixel clocks in the ECS V1 tool. Now, if I create a profile with the ECS V2 where I re-create the pixelclocks from ECS V1 and make the BenQ monitors switch to the same resolution it does not matter. The ghosting is still horrible. It doesn't matter what pixelclock or what monitor I try. Tried a bunch of other LCD monitors aswell. CRTs are out of the question.

    I have the ECS V2 back in one of my A600s. I defineately think there is less noticeable ghosting/smearing in this setup VS the A500 Plus. It's still worse than ECS V1. ECS V1 has very slight ghosting.


    Honestly, with the ECS V2 in my A600 I think the picture is very acceptable. The ghosting is only apparent in certain games that that has certain colour combinations. Like in the beginning of the first level in Disposable Heroes.


    The smearing on the right side of icons in workbench is not that visible in this setup. I have to put it back in my A500 Plus again to compare. Or maybe I'm getting old and my eyesight is failing me.

    Yes, 100nF/X7R, 50V.

    Thanks for confirming. I did transplant the 100nf C4 from A604n 2016 version over to C4 on this A604n 2013 version. So now I could also use the 2016 version in my non VBB Gayle rev 1.1 A600 board.


    Edit: I just realised this was probably posted in the wrong section. This thread could probably be moved to 'Amiga memory expansion' section

    Yes, C4 on the 2013 version is a standard decoupling cap on the 5V rail, near the memory chip. You should put that back in place,



    Indivision ECS V2 will work fine in the unmodified 2013 version if the host Amiga has a non-VBB Agnus. If it's a VBB Agnus, then the negative bias voltage (VBB) will be clamped by the input stage of the flicker fixer, causing parts of Agnus to malfunction. If you have a non-VBB Agnus, you're safe.

    And C4 should be 100nf in 2013 version? It's long gone so I need to replace it.


    I see. Yes, this rev 1.1 A600 motherboard has a non VBB Agnus. So that's why it worked then.


    Edit: I could just transplant C4 from 2016 version. I'm guessing C4 should be around 100nf in 2013 version aswell, since it's for decoupling


    Edit 2: I have transplanted the 100nf C4 from 2016 version of A604n over to C4 on 2013 version A604n. This surface mount cap is incredible small. But all went well.

    I removed C4 from 2013 version a few years ago when I was troubleshooting some stuff. Must have been confused as to what version it was necessary on. Is C4 in 2013 version also 100nf like in the 2016 version? You say it has another function in the 2013 version so I better replace it then.


    Info about ECS V2 is interesting as I just tried a ECS V2 in the 2013 version of A604n. Looked like it was working fine. Mind you, it is missing C4 currently. Don't know if that has something to do with it.

    Removal of C4 is only required for the 2016 version (with the square chip) of the board. The 2013 version, which we returned to for this current batch, is shipped with a small modification on the bottom of the board, so no action required here.

    I have an A604n 2013 version with the black PCB bought in 2015-04-02. I also have an A604n 2016 version (with the square chip bought in 2017-11-19.


    Unless the 2016 version was sold in 2015. I'm looking through my purchase history here. So basically both of these A604n would require removal of C4 if used with a non VBB Gayle? What year did you start to ship your new batch of the 2013 version with the small modification on the bottom?


    Or you say that all 2013 versions of A604n will be fine with C4 in place when used on a non VBB Gayle?

    So I was just wondering. I know C4 will conflict with A600 motherboards that has non VBB Gayle chips.


    Is C4 the same in both the latest version of A604 and the next newest version which has that square chip on the left of the ECS socket? So C4 has the same function in both of these A604n revisions, and will require removal for A600 motherboards with non VBB Gayle? I noticed C4 is place on the right side of the expansion slot on the older revision, while in the newer revision it's placed to the left of the ECS socket.

    Super Off Road and the other Graftgold games require the CPU to be set to 68000 - that's the case with all TG68-based Minimig variants, and won't change unless someone (probably not me!) can figure out exactly what those games don't like about the TG68's 68020 implementation.


    As for P96, if WHDLoad is your main focus then it's not going to be of much interest to you, so don't worry about it. :)

    yeah, I know RTG P96 is a graphics card to run hi-res workbench and so on. btw, the UnAmiga FPGA header uses the minimig core and has Amiga 500 keyboard support. I don't know if you could somehow look at that core to easily implement A500 keyboard support into the TC64/TC64 V2 minimig core. Also, the harddrive speed with TC64 minimig is very low. Like 500 - 600KB per second according to sysinfo. But this is the same for other minimig solutions aswell I think. At least I seem to remember the UnAmiga FPGA had similar HD speed in a review I saw. I'm curious to see if I get the error message when booting workbench. It happened on the older AGA core. I think I put up a picture of the error message.


    I must say the whole FPGA thing is really impressive. You are doing some really nice work here

    I finally found the cause of my ADF write problems, and having fixed those I was able to compile the utilities disk which was holding up this release. So here's an updated version with (highly experimental) P96 RTG support, and Akiko Chunky2Planar support. Have fun!

    http://retroramblings.net/?page_id=1422

    Thanks. Did a quick test with the new core. Super Off road will still crash back to workbench. As far as I understand, minimig core for other FPGAs also has issues with a few games. I will use your core more and report back any findings. I don't know much about P96 RTG and stuff like that. And I don't think I can use it with classic workbench anyway

    So I tried one of my ECS V1 again. And holy moly does the ECS V1 have noticeable better picture quality VS ECS V2. The picture is more clear and vibrant and no noticeable ghosting. As I said, I even replicated the 62Hz and 50Hz profile the V1 has, with my ECS V2. Made sure the monitor switched to the same resolution, Hz, pixelclock and everything. The ECS V1 simply has much better picture quality.


    this must be different parts used in the output circuitry between V1 and V2. With higher quality parts in the V1 or something else that went wrong with V2. If the V2 had the same picture quality the V1 has I would be a happy man.


    Edit: The Turbo Chameleon 64 V2 has the exact same ghosting the ECS V2 has. Using the minimig core with the TC64 V2 I can compare directly. Exactly the same ghosting and even less sharp VS ECS V2. minimig switches my BenQ monitors to 720x576. Looking at ECS V1 in 50Hz mode, which also swtiches my monitors to 720x576 I have a crystal clear and very vibrant picture with no ghosting.


    I wouldn't be surprised if TC64 V1 has a much nicer picture VS TC64 V2. I suspect this has to do with components used in ECS V2/TC64 V2 VS ECS V1/TC64 V1. Probably lower quality components in the VGA circuitry or something.

    It's not game-specific, but resolution specific: Reduce output pixel clock, and the input stage of the monitor will act much more like the traditional output stage. No wonder that it works nicely with 15kHz horizontal and 7/14MHz pixel clock :-)

    I know it's not game specific. But certain colours show the ghosting even more.I hear you. But that doesn't explain why me and so many other people have little to no ghosting on ECS V1. I have even replicated the pixel clocks and made the same profiles the ECS V1 is outputting, on the ECS V2. People are reporting ghosting with all kinds of monitors and resolutions. There must be a reason why there is no ghosting on V1 but alot of ghosting on V2. ECS V1 is not outputting 15KHz. It's outputting 31KHz + and with no ghosting. If there is some kind of hardware mod we can do to get rid of this ghosting it would be nice if you could post some info so people who are able to solder could do the mod themselves.

    A good game to see how bad the ghosting really is with the ECS V2 is Disposable Hero. At the start of the first level the ghosting looks horrible. Even with scanlines on. Does not matter what resolution or config one uses. Ghosting will be there no matter what. I instead plugged my BenQ BL 912 into RGB port. Looks so much better. I see absolutely no ghosting.