Posts by DownshiftDX

Quote from Jens

I did investigate this last week with the Samsung Syncmaster 214, which shows the issue here when using high output pixel clocks (=high output resolutions like 1600x1200). The change involves quite a few SMD components to be soldered, and if you go "all the way", it's 15 SMD components to be changed/added, as what I came up with is a new output amplifier stage that has almost nothing in common with the original Indivision ECS V1.

Samsung's input stage is quite piccy, and in essence, it appears to be developed against high-frequency-DACs of modern-day graphics cards. In order to mimic the conversion process of those, I had to change the output driver transistor with a much faster one with 2GHz transition frequency. To properly control the base of this transistor, one base resistor needs to be changed, and another one added, otherwise the output voltage levels are not right. Next, the analogue voltage supply of the RGB output stages needs more support with a higher capacitance after the supply filter.

I'll try to optimize the mod, so fewer components and bodge wires are required. Otherwise, I fear that too many Indivision ECS V2 will die in the attempt of applying this mod.

The follow up is appreciated Jens. However, on every single monitor,Amiga, and now video out cable I have tried the resolution has not made one bit of difference. Since I first realized the issue my ECSv2 has been restored with the recovery tool and latest firmware and I run it with the default 800x600 settings for an NTSC system.

Quote from berti

No, I don't expect an answer or solution after so many times, but want to comment it. Have the same problem as

DownshiftDX , how to sell this "smearing thing"? What is it worth in this condition?

It is clear this isn't going to be resolved after this long.

I don't know what it may be worth and if I do list mine for sale I am going to be clear about the issues and probably start at $50 US plus shipping.

If I had a PC CRT monitor to test on it might be acceptable but I can't justify buying a CRT just to find out it is still a poor quality image. For now the ECS V2 is just sitting in my spare A500 on the bench while my real day-to-day A500 has a real ECS Denise in it with an OSSC.

Quote from DownshiftDX

I have had mine in my A500 grounded with the supplied cable as noted in the manual. The V2 has been in and out a couple times for me to move my A500 into my Checkmate case and now twice after that to test the both my original DENISE and a full ECS version. Each time the ground cable was reconnected to the recommended screw. I have also made a new cable from scratch. No change.

As you describe "almost had to imagine" the ghosting... that is how the ghosting appeared through the Amiga RGB going through a component converter to a Panasonic CRT TV. I now can see it with ease with the RGB out to the OSSC and my Dell monitor as I described earlier, V2 installed or not, it doesn't matter. The V2 just seems to make the ghosting much more visible which leads me to believe it is something to do with the Amiga. My next step is to get one of my spare A500s setup and test it there.

This post got me thinking... I would actually buy a V3 if there is ever to be such a thing if it mimicked the way the OSSC works and had a built in HDMI passthru and output via HDMI... It could be a great internal, all in one, highly configurable option for highly expanded systems with one unified video output to modern displays.

I've now moved the ECS V2 to a spare A500 have I have setup and tested it on two more monitors. This A500 is an NTSC 6A running 2.0 ROM that hasn't yet been recapped and is using a late 90's "Big Foot" converted PC power supply. Same ghosting regardless of the resolution settings in the configuration program. Cable doesn't matter (cheap with no ferrite cores and 2m long or short 1m long with huge cores and heavy thick cable.)

I give up. I am sure most of the ECS V2s are fine but I don't believe this is right. I will probably sell it as used / marginal condition heavily discounted because it simply doesn't work right and then buy a ScanPlus ECS.

Quote from Christian

I noticed something interesting that I can't explain easily. I tested the V2 that Jens updated in several A2000s (A2000A, A2000B rev 4.5, A2000B rev 6.2) and the ghosting was still present. All of these have well working power supplies (LiteOn - 2 of them recapped with rather expensive Panasonic caps, voltages around 5.02-5.07V)

I did not yet try switching the cable between the V1 and the V2 as the V1 is in my Video Toaster A2000 and that is a major disassembly effort. But I did test exactly the same V2 using the A604n on an A600. With one of the monitors and cables that had ghosting on the A2000. And I could barely make out any ghosting - almost had to imagine it.

About the only thing that I can imagine is a grounding issue on the A2000s. I don't remember my V2 coming with the grounding cable - I will look in the box again - even though that is shown in the wiki and recommended. My V1 in the Video Toaster A2000 is properly grounded with the cable.

Christian

I have had mine in my A500 grounded with the supplied cable as noted in the manual. The V2 has been in and out a couple times for me to move my A500 into my Checkmate case and now twice after that to test the both my original DENISE and a full ECS version. Each time the ground cable was reconnected to the recommended screw. I have also made a new cable from scratch. No change.

As you describe "almost had to imagine" the ghosting... that is how the ghosting appeared through the Amiga RGB going through a component converter to a Panasonic CRT TV. I now can see it with ease with the RGB out to the OSSC and my Dell monitor as I described earlier, V2 installed or not, it doesn't matter. The V2 just seems to make the ghosting much more visible which leads me to believe it is something to do with the Amiga. My next step is to get one of my spare A500s setup and test it there.

This post got me thinking... I would actually buy a V3 if there is ever to be such a thing if it mimicked the way the OSSC works and had a built in HDMI passthru and output via HDMI... It could be a great internal, all in one, highly configurable option for highly expanded systems with one unified video output to modern displays.

Updating once more:

I pulled the 8373R4 Denise from one of my other A500s and tested it in my main A500 that has the IndivisionESC V2 in it. Here is what I found:

1. The ghosting is still present on Amiga RGB with high contrast white / black transitions. My first place to look for it is in the menus on PPaint which uses a white menu background and black text by default. A faint dark bar is able to be seen extending to the right of the selected item just like when I use the VGA output from the Indivision, though the Indivision makes it much more visible. I don't know at what point the Indivision takes gets the necessary data to generate an image but it seems to me the Amiga's Video Hybrid component is maybe the next place to look but I don't know where I could get a new one to try and Kipper2k doesn't seem to sell the replacement anymore and I do not have the skills to build one from the BOM if I got PCBs made.

2. I don't know how or if it is related but since pulling the Indivision I have not been able to duplicate the slight graphic corruption I sent my ACE2 back in to be checked out for. Once I got it back from repair the rate at which is appeared had become less frequent. However, with the real ECS Denise I have been totally unable to duplicate it even when I try to make it happen. (AmigaTestKit, AMOS Pro, and Workbench Install just resizing windows were sure triggers to make the glitch appear though it never seemed to hurt stability.)

I look forward to hearing what the result is after swapping them. Perhaps I will also construct my own cable to test also.

**Update**

Built a totally new cable and no appreciable change. Oh well.

**Update 2**

Okay I need to try another real ECS Denise. I usually run Amiga RGB through OSSC because of the ghosting but two nights ago I was able to see the same issue but very VERY faintly with the RGB output too on the same Dell monitor on OSSC on HDMI.

If that doesn't prove what component it is I am wondering if this could be from a slightly less than healthy Video Hybrid component?

Any news on what to do about this? It would be nice to actually use the Indivision ECS v2 output at some point if it can be corrected. It has been over a year since it was first reported.

The updates are appreciated Jens, even if infrequent. I just want to post a pic of the artifacts I see on each of my monitors tested for reference.

Basically high contrast areas like white to black transitions bleed or badly ghost across the screen. It is very distinct in the test pattern of the Individision settings app and in the PPaint UI. (Moving the window on the test screen causes distortions in the pixels to the right all the way across the screen.) You can also see color bleed in the orange and yellow into the black of the color palette.

For now I have moved on to using an OSSC which provides a perfect picture but I would rather use an integrated solution for conversion.

Quote from not_buddha

2.5 months since the last update... any progress?

I've tried connecting the Indivision ECS V2 to the VGA pass-through of my Piccolo RTG card, and the image is smearing much worse when routed through the Piccolo.
With my limited understanding of electronics, can I suppose that it really is a matter of bad/missing termination there? How can we solve this?

I've also tried on three Dell monitors of different years / models, a Vizio 46in TV from 2006, and a brand new Philips 32in UHD monitor. I have tried 6ft cables shipped with new monitor, several 3ft long cables with thick ferrite blocks on both ends and really heavy cable. Nothing makes any difference. I am confident enough in my soldering skills to perform any modifications to the board that might be needed.

I figured it out. I had disabled everything when I remembered P96.

When I got the Indivision my A500 suddenly had an ECS Denise which would allow 31khz video. I used this with P96 to allow AmigaAmp to play mp3s with much better quality. I didn't notice my CRT screen rolling because BBlank was kicking in at boot the same time P96 was giving me a display from the Vampire.

So with Env:Picasso96/AmigaVideo set to 31khz and my original BBlank loaded I get this in Screenmode hires test:

VGA from Indivision -> Working

CRT from Amiga -> Rolling distorted screen.

P96 AmigaVideo set to 15khz and BBlank loaded

VGA -> Working

CRT -> Working

So MCPs NewGadTools corrupts the UI of the config tool.

P96 31khz AmigaVideo and border blanking (either the one I have been using or the one linked by Jens) makes the Screenmodes test screen roll and distort on the Amiga video port.

I don't often play mp3s on my Amiga so disabling 31khz is no big deal really.

I am guessing PPaint and Overscan prefs work in Hires no matter what because they open full new screens (forcing the chipset back to 15khz) and don't use the default one that is created at boot that P96 is putting into 31khz.

I actually don't use MCP for border blank. I have had a tool in C: called bblank for a very long time that I have always used. I didn't even discover MCPs option for border blanking until this problem and I could not get it to do anything at all when I was testing so it remains disabled. I use MCP primarily for GUI patches like moving / changing Workbench's screenbar text, adding a clock, etc.

I will try the BorderBlank tool you linked to and see if there is an improvement.

Sorry for the delay in getting back on... parent life.

I will likely move away from using MCP at all and look into other options for border blanking and see if the problems persist. I am glad the Agnus is okay and that the Indivision is working as well as it was when it was installed with bblank and NewGadTools patch disabled.

Thanks for taking the time to consider this and respond.

Okay some follow ups...

1. Booting with no startup-sequence allows the config tool to work without issue. I should have been smart enough to try this but it just didn't occur to me. (I've been getting back to my Amiga to try to decompress from work...) Anyhow, this positive result led me to disabling individual tools like fblit, blazewcp, etc one at a time. Finally disabling MCP from startup allowed the config tool to work correctly from a normal bootup. I then disabled and re-enabled each of the parts of MCP I had been using for quite a while now and it turned out that the NewGadTools patch was conflicting. When it is off the config tool works fine from a normal startup. One problem solved. Not sure when the setting was turned on and left on, but it is possible when I was just trying different options in MCP I never noticed an issue because once I got the Indivision configured I basically left it. (I also use my CRT most of the time because of the as of yet unresolved ghosting issues on the ECSv2.)

2. Next, I re-tested HiRes / HiRes Laced NTSC or PAL modes. From Screenmode prefs it still yielded a screen that rolls and is distorted. However, Oversan prefs works fine as does setting the screen mode to HiRes Laced in PPaint. Putting my original OCS Denise in allowed Screenmode prefs to work normally. I went back to the Indivision and started again with disabled Startup-sequence. I had not tested Screenmode prefs like this earlier. It worked fine; displayed a perfect test picture. I then went quickly through the startup-sequence again and decided to comment out the bblank border blanking tool. Reboot and test screenmode prefs and HiRes and laced modes test perfectly. So it seems this is maybe having something to do between the ECSv2 and bblank or maybe my combination of hardware with bblank.... I dunno.

3. My backed up configuration file is attached though now I am not sure it is of relevance.

4. System Specs

Amiga 500 rev 6a w/A501 for realtime clock.

Vampire 500 v2+

OS 3.1.4 with 3.1.4 ROM on Vampire.

ACE2 Chipram extender

Gotek floppy emulator

I certainly hope any weirdness isn't due to my Agnus... Hasn't been that long since I got the ACE2 and I have been quite happy with it and how easy it was to install.

Thanks for the reply Timm.

I will have a chance to test starting the configuration tool with no startup-sequence tomorrow evening. However, after my last post here I did try deleting the config from ENVARC: before I did a re-flash from the emergency recover disks to try to start over completely clean. It is likely that the same configuration file is still on my backup of my system drive but I will have to check.

I will update tomorrow.

Update:

The VGA port does display the HiRes test modes in Screenmode prefs.

Attempting to use the settings tool to adjust the settings in anything other than LowRes causes the Amiga to lock up #8000000A.

I was able to find the 20190903 file and flash down with the rescue disk and it is giving the same behavior now also... very strange.

Just saw the post for the latest update for 2.3 20190516 and updated as I had with previous versions.

Tried the settings tool to make adjustments and it now displays the adjustment window with corrupted graphics. If I try to adjust the settings more than twice the Amiga will crash while displaying a single gray color on screen , occasionally with audio glitching.

Also, testing NTSC and PAL HiRes modes in Screenmode prefs from Workbench produces a bad sync signal; CRT on Amiga RGB is unable to sync and I get a wobbly rolling screen with huge amount of distortion and on my Dell LCD connected to the VGA port refuses to display anything. Everything worked fine in the last firmware. However, PPaint 7.3c is able to output HiRes/SHiRes normal and laced modes without issue to the RGB port and VGA just fine. Played PowerGlove Unleashed for 30 mins to see if there were any problems and it ran fine. Overscan settings for both NTSC and PAL were able to display perfectly.

I attempted several reflashes and cleared the saved settings.

Is there a link to the previous .lha as I seem unable to find the backup I thought I saved. I am planning to roll back.

I would like to add that using the GGLabs A520HD for Component output from the Amiga RGB to a CRT TV the ghosting is present for me. It is much less visible but I did start to notice it when working in PPaint the other night. So for me at least it is not limited to only the VGA out from the Indivision ECS v2.

I'll get it downloaded and tested this weekend.

**EDIT**

v1.7e is working on my A500 with V2+. I am running the Gold Core 2.10 and related SAGA drivers if anyone else is interested.

Thank you for the update! It made a huge difference to the quality to be able to adjust the filters.

Ghosting here on Dell U2420f. Installed in A500. It is minor and I plan to try a couple other monitors I have around to make sure it isn't the Dell. No noise or artifacts on Amiga RGB. I can post a pic if it would help.

Looks like I will have to take that information to the Apollo forum and see if they can confirm what the Vampire is doing. Thank you!

I will be fully disassembling the 500 at some point soon to do some work to make the joyport multiplexer socketed (I have done this on my other 500 already) so I may just put my 2.04 rom brom back in with the plain 68k and my GVP Impact II scsi drive and configure the Indivision before putting it all back together.