Posts by Ferry

Quote from Jens

That's a very plausible explanation, yes: If you feed the monitor 16:9, but it has a 16:10 panel, it may really do the worst thing you could possibly do, and that's crop the picture to fill the whole screen. It wouldn't be the first time that a decision made by the monitor on it's own (attempting to be more clever than the user) is about the dumbest thing you can think of

So a future update of the config tool, which hopefully finds a 16:10 mode in the next level of EDID blocks, might fix it. We have an internal version of the core that hopefully solves the VSync polarity problem (still need to hook up measurement equipment and see if we *really* solved it). Also, reading out the "deeper" EDID levels is also something that's on the agenda for the next version of the config tool - please give us a bit more time to do finalize and polish these. We've already pushed our luck by doing releases in very fast succession, but we should go back to more structured work.

Hi, Jens.

Any news on the aspect ratio issue?

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Quote from Phil

In the meantime, you’re having now a clean keyboard 😂😂🥳

Have a nice day 👍

Hehe, that's very true

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Quote from Phil

You have to press Shift-CTRL-Tilde to get in the live-mode.

O
M
F
G



Looks like I'm getting old. Sometime in the last month my mind went from Shift+Ctrl+Tilde to Ctrl-Tilde, and I was SURE it was the correct key combination…

Thanks, man.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Hi.

Live editing mode suddenly stopped working. It worked before, now it doesn't, pressing the 'Ctrl+tilde' hotkey does nothing.

I have dissasembled and cleaned the keyboard, even if it worked fine, I have taken out and reseatted both boards, the Indivision itself and the CIA one, to no avail.

I have even downgraded the FW to previous versions (I've tried 1.5 and 1.6): no difference.

Is there anything else I can try to make it work? Thanks.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Quote from Jens

We have an internal version of the core that hopefully solves the VSync polarity problem (still need to hook up measurement equipment and see if we *really* solved it). Also, reading out the "deeper" EDID levels is also something that's on the agenda for the next version of the config tool

Hi Jens.

If you need me to do any test on the polarity issue, just ask.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Quote from Jens

I haven't been able to reproduce that here, so I assume both you and Ferrán have the same problem with a monitor setting, or even something that the monitor decides on it's own without the possibility for the user to change the behaviour. I guess for DVI, it really does "1:1" pixel display, and for HDMI (which is more or a multimedia, less a computer-associated signal), it switches to "movie mode" or similar. Many TVs have that setting deeply hidden in a menu, That picture processing is the first thing I turn off when I get a new screen.

Hi Jens.

A friend pointed me out that this odd overscan/oversizing problem could be related to aspect ratio. My Dell U2410, in which I'm having it, is 16:10. I have tried with a monitor of the same family, Dell U2711, same electronics AFAIK, but a different aspect ratio, 16:9, and the image is correctly displayed. Could it be it? If yes, is there any way to solve it without having to resort to the "DVI mode", losing sound in the process? Thanks.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Quote from nuttie

When I switch between DVI and non-DVI mode, the amount of overscan visible on the TV display changes. DVI mode seems to display the maximum viewable area the Amiga is capable of putting a screen into, but in non-DVI mode, the displayed area seems to zoom in slightly losing some of the outside screen margins, and also part of the Mk3 OSD information

Hi, nuttie.

That's exactly the same problem that I'm having, check my first post on the issue and the messages that follow that one.

Regarding sound, deactiving "DVI mode" in order to recover audio over HDMI did not work as expected, I get an odd behaviour: playing an MP3 that worked before trying "DVI mode", I got only 1-2 second of sound. Pausing and unpausing, 2 more seconds, and so on.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Quote from Jens

This pretty much confirms that your monitor can't handle sound over HDMI without HDCP. You must know that DVI is forward-compatible to HDMI, but HDMI is not backwards-compatible with DVI.

[…]

Please also note that Audio over HDMI is not an advertised feature - it is still regarded as "experimental" on our side, because the test-depth is low. You may also double-check if you are really using the HDMI input of the monitor (I can see that it has both DVI and HDMI inputs). It may only support sound on the native HDMI input.

Next, I found that the Dell U2410 has a native sice of 1920x1200 pixels. Indivision AGA MK3 cannot serve that panel size in 60Hz, because that would require well over 190MHz pixel clock. Please note that 165MHz pixel clock is the maximum that our product can provide, so attempting to use that output size will not work. We have already improved the maximum pixel clock from 135MHz on the MK2/MK2cr version to 165MHz in the MK3 version, so you can now make use of full-HD panels. However, the panel you've chosen is beyond full-HD.

[…]

We may or may not change the output frequency of digital audio in the future, but let me emphasize again that audio is not an advertised feature.

So at this point, I'm asking you to try a different monitor, as too many points hint at the one you've chosen is not suitable for a number of reasons. I'm happy to put a few things on the to-be-fixed-buglist, but we need to know if for example the interrupted audio is a property of your monitor, or if it's a bug in our Paula-emulation.

Display More

Hi Jens.

I know HDMI audio is not and advertised feature, I know it was announced as experimental, but I and some other Amiga users at a Telegram Spanish Amiga group wanted to know if it worked or not, so it was the first thing I tried after installing the Indivision:

https://youtu.be/3ac635dvZTY

It worked right away, same machine, same monitor. I think the only differences between that try and the one with the same test failing were ticking On and then OFF the "DVI mode" and maybe the screenmode/VGA mode combination (I think first try was made on DblPal HiRes NonFlicker screenmode, can't remember the VGA mode). As you can see at the OSD in the image I sent in the failed audio test, the VGA mode was "EDID 1280x1024@60" for a "PRE 1024x768 HiGFX" screenmode, far below max monitor resolution. I will try again with a lower resolution screenmode.

Regarding my Dell monitor and its pixel clock at its higher resolution, 1920x1200@60 requires only 154MHz, not 190, at least according to its user manual:

so I think the Indivision MK3 can handle it, right? In fact, I have re-tried again with my 2015 MacBookPro and it detects all screenmodes, including HDMI ones (1080p, 1080i):

I know it's a more modern technology than a 30 years old Amiga trying to output video and audio through HDMI (which is an extraordinary achievement, I must say), I only included it just to show you that the monitor works OK with other computers though HDMI.

BTW, talking of age, this Dell is from 2010, maybe it has something to do the HDMI specification?

I will try with another monitor (the only other one I have belongs to the same family, a Dell 2711, same specs, same inputs, just a bigger screen and from 2011).

If there's any other test I can do regarding audio, just ask. I will keep trying VGA/Test modes combinations, let's see if that can be solved, I would like to have both audio and video through HDMI.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Quote from Jens

The best advice I can give is to read the documentation of the config tool. I really don't want to quote each and every part of your wall-of-text that indicates that you haven't even tried the config tool yet. Our Wiki is your friend. Please mind that the config tool was updated to V1.3 with the latest core today - in fact, a few minutes ago

It looks like you are using the default config, which uses a low resolution by default. Even if you don't have the config tool on your computer yet, did you try live config by pressing CTRL-lShift-Tilde and moving the mouse to make the upper left part visible?

Further, please upload images to the forum - external hosters often add lots of advertising, or don't even work with Javascript diabled (which is my default setting for unknown/untrusted pages).

Hi again, Jens.

Yes, I have used the config tool, I have created VGA, modes, Test modes, to no avail. I have used the "Live edit" too, to no avail. That's what my "wall-of-text" says. BTW, the "Live edit" moves the WB/Amiga screen, not the OSD, and it is still partly out off the screen. Why? I don't know.

For example, I've noticed that PRE screenmodes (Test modes) sometimes misidentify the correct mode, i.e,, the PRE mode says 800x600 but the mode selected as Test mode is 800x300. Is that OK?

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Quote from Jens

Let me just drop in here that Super72 may be a line or two off between Kick/WB 3.0 and 3.1, so our presets may be a bit tight on the number of lines for detection. Te mode may be mis-interpreted by the current settings if you have a slightly different version of the monitor files.

Next, your description of the monitor not knowing it's own modes sounds very much like it can't handle HDMI signals, but requires DVI signals to work correctly. Please go to the "advanced" menu and tick the box "DVI mode".

Hi, Jens.

I have tried the "DVI mode" thing and it solves the image problem, but at a cost: no sound. Trying to go back and restore sound had weird effects: first, the image seems to keep the correct proportions and view (all elements inside the screen) even with "DVI Mode" switched off (see OSD in the image), until you reboot;

Second, sound does not work, at least not as it should. I have tried with the same MP3 player that worked before all these experiments. Now it sounds for 1 to 3 seconds, and you can still see the VUmeters working. If you pause and unpause, again you get sound for a couple of seconds, then mute (but the song is still being reproduced):

https://youtu.be/JHyQ3v3WdZg

No reboot will cure this, I have not tried a reflash.

Would it be possible to have sound even with "DVI mode" on?

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Quote from pwsoft

It is not the HDMI cable, a cable issue will result in either a black screen or random color blocks or something digital noise like that. You clearly have a stable picture. The monitor just decides cropping parts of it (for some mysterious reason).

Is is enabled? You can enable and disable individual slots. Also PAL might be earlier in the list and if it matches as well (search is based on the number of scanlines the Amiga generates) it doesn't matter what slots comes after it. Changing the order of the slots can help with that. Or you can go the live-edit mode and press 'X' to cycle through all compatible slots for the current screenmode.

Try to use or create a VGA mode in the config tool that matches the native resolution of your monitor (1920 by 1200 probably). Doesn't matter what the Amiga screen resolution is. Your monitor clearly wants a HDMI signal that matches its native resolution. And I'm sure it is a fine monitor for 15khz, but that is not the problem we are trying to solve here. So again try to select a VGA mode that matches the native resolution of your monitor.

Well, some news. As you correctly said, replacing the cable made no difference. What made a difference was switching to VGA output instead of HDMI, from VGA everything works as it should.

With HDMI, I've tried setting "EDID 1920x1200@62" and "EDID 1600x1200@60" for screenmode "PRE 1024x768 HiGfx", but as soon as press "Test/Adjust" monitor goes into a vicious circle between going into Energy Saving mode and back to life for a second, like if it were trying to display something, but it never does, and back to Energy Saving, and on and on… The first Indi VGA mode that works is "EDID 1280x1024@60", but it still shows Indi OSD partially out of sight, as any other combination of VGA mode/screenmode I've tried, as long as it is through HDMI.

BTW, is the 'X' key thing an undocumented feature of the "Live-edit" mode? It is not mentioned anywhere in the manual, AFAIK…

Tomorrow I'll try with a different monitor (Dell U2711) and maybe a TV screen with HDMI input, let's see what happens.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Quote from pwsoft

Yeah so you tried 800x600 and 1024x768 both modes not native for the display resolution. Changing the Amiga screen modes will not help if they are mapped to the same VESA mode. You could try finding an "auto adjust" or something named like that in the menu of your monitor. But if it cuts off that much by default wouldn't really trust that will help.

My suggestion is trying one of the detected EDID modes that match the native resolution of the panel (1920x1200@60 if I interpret the attached pictures correctly). Or you could try 1080p for HDMI/DVI as that is listed as supported in the documentation page you posted.

Yep, I tried because first time I switched on the Amiga with the Indivision installed I saw it was displaying (or trying to display) a 800x600 screen (at least according to Indivision OSD), so I tried to reproduce a custom one that had the setting listed in the monitor manual as one of the "right" modes, hoping that this "correct" mode would be of some help.

And as for the Amiga screenmode, Super72 800x600, in fact it IS listed as one of the PRE modes in the Indi Setup tool, and that was my first try, both PRE 800x600, screenmode and Indi VGA. Since it didn't work with PRE modes, I made a custom Indi VGA mode and a new screenmode, injecting the screenmode from the requester, in the hope it would be recognized, but no luck either.

Anyway, looks like a general symptom: every screenmode I have tried shows the Indi OSD partially out of the screen and the screenmode oversized, with some elements out of sight,

Even if I want to use the Indivision with HDMI, someone has suggested me to try VGA output just to see what happens, and also a different HDMI cable (they can be picky), but I must say that the one I'm using I've used it before with the same monitor and a MBP without a single hickup. Also, I'll reset the monitor to its factory default settings, let's see if that makes any difference.

I use this monitor because it can display 15kHz modes, has plenty of inputs (DisplayPort, 2 x DVI, HDMI, VGA, Composite and Component video) and Picture-By-Picture, so I can display my A1 and the A1200 side by side. The A1 (DVI) also has no problem showing different screen modes in it.

I'll report back as soon as I have new info.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Quote from Jens

New core with a bug fix has been published today - no official release, as that's planned for tomorrow, together with a new config tool. I don't want to re-upload the binary, so please get it from the German part of this forum.

Hi again, Jens.

I just saw your post about the new core after I send mine with all the images. I have DL'ed the new core and flashed it to the board: no changes, Indivision logo OSD and Live setup OSD still partially out of the screen, no matter if computer/wb has loaded or not.

BTW, I tried, just in case, to use the Rescue disk and reset the board. That's what I got:

https://i.imgur.com/gE5fb3F.jpg

so I have replaced the "firmware" file in the Rescue disk with the one released yesterday, 20200811.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Quote from Jens

What's wrong with that? The computer is not yet started, and the flicker fixer shows it's OSD for a brief period. Also, the monitor appears to be set to stretch the picture somehow, as it does not display the whole picture. Make sure it's not in "movie mode" or similar - use the PC mode or 1:1 mode (some monitors call it this, others that...).

Hi, Jens.

Same happens when WB loads (it was set to DBLPal mode). Through the Amiga RGB => VGA (with a DB23 to DB15 converter) the image is just fine in the same monitor. Oversized WB through Indivision HDMI:

https://i.imgur.com/fwJALOr.jpg

This Dell is able to do Picture-By-Picture, so I did with the two inputs, Indivision HDMI and Amiga RGB=>VGA:

https://i.imgur.com/2U9dTC9.jpg

As for the monitor stretching the image, I've checked the settings and zoom is set to 0. The only setting I had was "Width Mode", so the monitor fills the screen if you want to avoid having two black columns at the sides of the image:

https://i.imgur.com/lbmRIgi.jpg

Anyway, I have tried setting it to "Aspect" (stretches the image until it finds the first attribute, height or width, to reach the border, and sets the other one to the correct aspect ratio) and also setting it to "1:1" (no stretching at all), getting same result with both: Indivision logo or "live adjustment" OSD are still out of the screen. This image was did with "Width mode" set to "Aspect":

https://i.imgur.com/7lqwrox.jpg

This monitor can handle 15kHz modes too. This is v3.1.4 Early Startup menu at 15kHz:

https://i.imgur.com/qtULac8.jpg

and this one at 31kHz (pressing Return):

https://i.imgur.com/4NG32mp.jpg

Taking the data from my monitor manual and the resolutions it handles, I have also tried to create two custom VGA modes in the Indivision setup application, one for the HighGFX 1024x768 screenmode:

https://i.imgur.com/hnJhpWh.jpg

with the same result, Indivision logo still partially out of the screen:

https://i.imgur.com/xEvC7F4.jpg

even the Live Setting OSD is partially out of the screen:

https://i.imgur.com/Ip3APwb.jpg

And one for the Super72 SuperHires Laced 800x600 screenmode:

https://i.imgur.com/TbFvmA4.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/34krmzm.jpg

and even if the Setup util displays it working correctly:

https://i.imgur.com/1Cbco8r.jpg

in this case, I have found no way to make the screemode to pick the correct VGA Indivision mode: as you can see, even if the test screen says it is displaying Super72: Super Hires Laced 800x600x5 screen, the Indivision logo says PAL 800x600 screenmode over a preset 800x600 VGA mode:

https://i.imgur.com/n7j3D2q.jpg

The only thing I have not tried is to disable the "PRE Pal: 800x600" mode in the Indivision Setup application.

As you can see, it's not that I have not tried different things, but as I am new to Indivision, maybe there's something I'm overlooking?

What do you think? Any help will be appreciated.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

What am I doing wrong? Display is a Dell U2410, and image was taken just after a switch-on, just before any load.

https://i.imgur.com/5ElmpQR.jpg

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Edit: after reflashing with the new FW does the same.

Quote from Jens

Hi,

Peter has made a test-core that you can find in this posting. Since the text is in German, I'll translate it here:

Please unpack the file and transer to your Amiga. Either flash it to the flicker fixer using the config tool: Choose "flash firmware file" from the drop-down menus (press+hold right mouse button), or rename the unpacked file to "firmware" and copy it to the rescue disk, in case flashing doesn't work with the config tool.

Please report back if this solves your problem - it does on the only machine that I've found to show unstable output.

Display More

Hi, Jens.

Do we have to apply the new FW in every MK3, even if no problem has been reported/seen? Will it provide more stability?

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Hi all!

First of all, I just received and installed my MK3, so thanks for it, for the fast delivery.

As I said, I already mounted it on my A1200, not without some doubts. For example, while the installation of the main board itself on top of the LISA chip is pretty clear, the installation of the tiny board on the CIA chip is not so clear: that arrow mark on the tiny CIA board should coincide with the mark on the CIA chip itself, but it does not, and the image on the installation manual does no help much, is way too dark. Curiously, the image corresponding to the A4000T installation is pretty clear and a detailed close-up.

A friend told me that I should look for the indented corner on the chip and make the tiny CIA board coincide with it, and since I am a "measure three times, cut one" kind of guy, I looked also for images in your Indivision MK3 shop page, and fortunately there was a very clear and detailed image on how to install it, but it should be clear also in the manual and it is not.

Now it's time to try it, let's see how it works.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.