C64 Reloaded MK2: impressions and request ;-)

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    Good morning.


    I would like to express my satisfaction with your product “C64 Reloaded MK2”, which I purchased a month ago. From my inexperienced hands in electronics a working C64 emerged: I almost couldn’t believe it when I turned it on for the first time, after having spent a morning arranging the motherboard in the base of the transparent cover, purchased on the your website. It’s a type of work that I don’t know how to do but it was easier than expected!


    In the past few months I thought I would turn to Gideon to buy the Ultimate 64 as a "final purchase", after having bought the Ultimate II+L cartridge from him, used on the “real” C64C, but my doubts were related to the technical design of that motherboard: even though it is an excellent product, in essence it is a hardware emulator of the C64, not a real C64: for this reason I already have Vice on Mac and Windows, in addition to TheC64, and I would not have the guarantee that an emulator works 100% like a real C64 (I am a computer programmer and I know that programs are fallible).

    What I wanted, next to my ’86 C64C, was a NEW REAL C64, built with modern materials.

    An impossible dream? With the “Reloaded MK2” I think I have achieved it.


    The hearts that beat inside the card, designed in 2017, are the real chips of the 80s. The great thing is that I can have fun as I want and replace the parts as I like (6510, 8580, CIA, etc.). I have already tried the J-CPU64 6510/8500, J-CIA64 6526/8521 and CSG 8580 chips: they work great! But then, when the “old” chips from the 80s arrived, purchased from Retro8bit, I wanted to replace them with these. In short, a new world opened up before me!

    I used the Tera Term 5 program, as recommended on the wiki site and it was a great experience: I downloaded the USB drivers from the Prolific site. I was able to both load Jiffy DOS on the EPROM and update to the latest firmware from last year (November 2023). It works great on Windows 10, which is usually a bit capricious with third-party drivers.


    Congratulations, you have added a “retro” flavor to a board that is wonderful!


    I get to two questions, which I wanted to ask you for a month, but given the summer closure I preferred to wait.


    LED power cable

    I bought the C64 cover from your site, but without the LED power cable; would it be possible to buy it from you? I don't know how to build it according to the specifications illustrated in the brochure.


    Choice of mono/stereo mode of the audio output

    I mounted the CHIP SID 8580 as SID1 and the CHIP 6581 as SID2. To do some tests, through the "Audio Output" menu, I used both the stereo configuration (opt. "L"), and the mono configuration (opt. "B"). You can't choose both, so in the end I opted for the "B" option, giving up the "stereo" mode. Not having the LED cable that uses the flashing to inform which SID is active, I use your program "sid-detect2.prg".

    I would like to listen to the stereo audio of .sid stereo files, without having to tweak the configuration with Tera Term every time or without having to go to Vice as an alternative.


    Audio Output

    • 1 - Mono SID 1
    • 2 - Mono SID 2
    • B ==> Mono both SID1 and 2
    • L - SID 1 Left, SID 2 Right
    • R - SID 1 Right, SID 2 Left


    Configure long press RESET/POWER function

    • 1 - Toggle between default kernal and custom image 1
    • 2 - Cycle through default kernal and custom image 1, 2
    • 3 - Cycle through default kernal and all custom images
    • C - Toggle between default and custom character ROM
    • R - Reset machine
    • S ==> Toggle between SID-1 and SID-2 (when set to mono)


    I have seen some requests on the forum, few in truth, but well documented, on a possible implementation of the "on the fly" choice of the "stereo" or "mono" mode, without having to enter the configuration via Tera Term every time.

    I read with great interest the post by the user Kaninbjerget of April 3th 2023 "Stereo request feature". This is exactly what I wanted to write to you, before reading that post.


    In addition to being able to choose the mono audio of SID1 or SID2 (if different from each other, obviously, otherwise I don't see the point), you could be able to listen to stereo music simply by pressing one of the provided buttons (Restore or Reset), activating the same function already used for the software switch of the "mono" SIDs.


    I have not seen any particular positive feedback from you on the feasibility of these (few) requests.

    What I would like to know is if you are working on it.


    Allow me to say how I imagine the two options mentioned should work.


    The “Audio Output” function should have two new options, such as:


    • S - SID 1 Left, SID 2 Right / Mono both SID1 and 2 (nota: opz. L + opz. B)
    • T - SID 1 Right, SID 2 Left / Mono both SID1 and 2 (nota: opz. R + opz. B)


    The “Configure long press RESTORE function” function should have two new options:


    • U ==> Toggle between stereo (SID 1 Left, SID 2 Right) and Mono both SID1 and 2
    • W ==> Toggle between stereo (SID 1 Right, SID 2 Left) and Mono both SID1 and 2


    The “S” option would be the same as the current “L” of “Audio output”, and the “T” option would be the same as the current “R”.

    The difference would be that, by long pressing the “reset” (or “restore”) button, you would switch, in sequence, from the stereo audio “L” or “R” to the mono SID 1 and to the SID2 mode, in a cyclical way.


    In that post I mentioned above, the user Kaninbjerget had explained very well how to visually render the result through the differentiated flashing of the LED cable.


    I wanted to tell you my impressions on a product that has something more than the simple C64!


    After said that, I congratulate you, and see you in the next purchase!


    Greetings

    Giancarlo Traccitto


    Quote from GiancarloTraccitto

    Congratulations, you have added a “retro” flavor to a board that is wonderful!

    Thanks! You'd help us a lot if you share your experience on Twitter/X/Mastodon/Facebook. As you may know, we don't advertise, and also don't sponsor videos, as outlined in our influencer policy. Honest, un-announced reviews like this is what makes our sales.

    Quote from GiancarloTraccitto

    LED power cable

    I bought the C64 cover from your site, but without the LED power cable; would it be possible to buy it from you? I don't know how to build it according to the specifications illustrated in the brochure.

    We have that in the works - six different LED colours will be available either late this month, or early September. This has been in the making for almost a year, and numerous tools have been built (and scrapped) in order to streamline the process of making the right-sized LEDs.


    Quote from GiancarloTraccitto

    I have not seen any particular positive feedback from you on the feasibility of these (few) requests.

    What I would like to know is if you are working on it.

    The C64 Reloaded MK2 is feature-complete, so no, we are not working on it. Your explanation of channel mapping and option selections is very clear - not sure if I have seen that in other posts. At this point, I'd have a hard time justifying more development time on the C64 Reloaded MK2, as we've had two loss-making years and even contemplated to stop licensing the name "Commodore" as it has been a drain on our budget, not really a benefit. So before I can put Peter on such an update, there would have to be considerable budget beyond the occasional sale of a C64 Reloaded MK2. Not sure how many people would chip in some money for such a feature.


    Jens

    Good morning.


    Thanks for the prompt reply.


    Quote from Jens

    The C64 Reloaded MK2 is feature-complete, so no, we are not working on it. Your explanation of channel mapping and option selections is very clear - not sure if I have seen that in other posts. At this point, I'd have a hard time justifying more development time on the C64 Reloaded MK2, as we've had two loss-making years and even contemplated to stop licensing the name "Commodore" as it has been a drain on our budget, not really a benefit. So before I can put Peter on such an update, there would have to be considerable budget beyond the occasional sale of a C64 Reloaded MK2. Not sure how many people would chip in some money for such a feature.

    I understand... In fact the product, as it is, is really complete.


    For my part I will try to do what I can to share my experience.


    Good work to all your team.


    Greetings

    Giancarlo Traccitto

    Quote from Jens

    The C64 Reloaded MK2 is feature-complete, so no, we are not working on it. Your explanation of channel mapping and option selections is very clear - not sure if I have seen that in other posts. At this point, I'd have a hard time justifying more development time on the C64 Reloaded MK2, as we've had two loss-making years and even contemplated to stop licensing the name "Commodore" as it has been a drain on our budget, not really a benefit. So before I can put Peter on such an update, there would have to be considerable budget beyond the occasional sale of a C64 Reloaded MK2. Not sure how many people would chip in some money for such a feature.


    Jens


    I have two suggestions. I'm not sure how much time and effort is required to make such feature but if there's a group I'm not (yet) aware of where many MK2 users regularly hang out there can be a poll. If enough is interested and will contribute a few € then it might be feasible by crowd funding.


    The other possibility. Since it is now a "feature complete" product. Could it be an idea to make firmware open source? That way there can be an official firmware as sold and promised. Then others can make changes like the apparently much requested easy switch between mono and stereo without having to resolve to a DIY custom cable with added physical switch.


    Sure there might not be much room left but I'm sure there's something else much less wanted that can be left out - for a start simplifying the config of 1 respectively two SIDs. Perhaps as simple as a yes/no whether one or two SIDs - if one then always SID-1. If two then possible to cycle between mono SID-1, mono SID-2 and stereo. Always start in mono SID-1 after power loss as mono is the most used and user can just place whatever SID preference they want default in SID-1 and don't bother to save last state between power cycles - that also wears the flash.

    Quote from Kaninbjerget

    Could it be an idea to make firmware open source?

    That would reveal the technology that we're using to auto-detect the chips. This is proprietary research, and after all these years, it's the only board on the market that has this feature. Open-sourcing the firmware would give away this competitive edge.


    Further, with firmware being open-source, defective firmware might destroy valuable chips that are not made any more. I wouldn't want to risk that.


    Quote from Kaninbjerget

    that also wears the flash.

    Not a concern. If you change settings 4 times per day and use the C64RMK2 on 6 days of the week, you end up with a product lifetime of over 80 years. I'd say that's acceptable.


    Jens

    Having followed these forums for a long time I don't get the impression that anymore products of such will be developed. If there ever will be a MK3 it'll be an FPGA solution. So seems there wouldn't be a loss. If anything actually an increase in sale as it then works like many seems to request.
    I'm not worried about third party software destroying chips. Naturally there won't be any warranty on third party software.

    But still a crowd fund would be nice too. I'm not a programmer that close to hardware myself (C#) but it doesn't seem like it would be a big multi week project to make changes to how configuration and cycle of it how using power or restore button works. Merely a few rearrangements of already existing configuration possibilities.


    You can argue flash wear is not a real world concern - but look at it this way - it's less code and you say it's tight. Personally I'd be very happy just turning on into "regular" mono configuration and just switch to stereo when wanted long pressing restore button.


    Also personally as time has gone by I'm more and more leaning to just do it the old fashioned way using jumpers. Full control and no buggy automatic detection. Before the very latest firmware update it wrongly detected some, some say factory rejects although they look fine to me, 85xx VIC as 65xx and gave them full 12+5v instead of 2x 5v - confirmed using multimeter. But against all odds they survived voltage and blazing hot temperatures - some tough HMOS chips.
    It gives warnings on SID replacements if not using the 1 kOhm resistor hack. Some seems not to work really at all. Sound is low and distorted in a funny way. Not only analog distortion but also like it doesn't communicate well digitally too. The same replacements work very well in both original machines where they're the only replacements and modern clones where only semi vintage IC is the video RAM.
    Kawari can be made to work in PAL mode (configure for PAL MB oscillator, upgraded to as of this writing latest firmware). I haven't looked into if you can force MK2 into NTSC as I've not grown up in NTSC land so I've no big interest in it - it doesn't work if you just configure Kawari for NTSC with MB oscillator. One could argue that replacements are not true replacements in every aspect and sure especially the Kawari isn't as video output is closer to standards than the original chips. On the other side then neither is the MK2 otherwise the mentioned would work without issue - in modern boards with jumper configuration they naturally works as expected.
    J-CPU and J-CIA works fine and I use those as they run nice and cool - but it's also expected as electrically they're all identical except a difference in power usage (newer not as power hungry) so no auto configuration to take place there.

    Quote from Kaninbjerget

    If there ever will be a MK3 it'll be an FPGA solution.

    You're predicting past announcements. Did you look at the other board that's using an FPGA? Yes, it uses real SID chips, as these are hard to emulate. Having a jumper-free board is a major "plus".


    Quote from Kaninbjerget

    You can argue flash wear is not a real world concern - but look at it this way - it's less code and you say it's tight.

    You're saving a CALL to the flash routine, that's three bytes. Not many features to add for that.


    While I'm the owner of this project, it won't be open-sourced.


    Jens

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