Indivision AGA MK3 on A4000D - No Signal

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Don't Panic. Please wash hands.
  • Hi - I installed my recently purchased Indivision AGA MK3 in my A4000D but so far I've been unable to get any signal from it. I've connected the SVGA output of the Indivision to a late model CRT (PC) monitor. The monitor works fine connected to other computers with 31kHz / SVGA compatible output (A3000, PC).


    The Amiga 4000D's built-in output on the 23-pin / 15KHz port works fine (connected using my previous setup of OSSC -> HDMI to SVGA adapter) and the computer is functioning as expected. The A4000D has been recapped about 6 months ago and works well.


    I've tried:

    - Re-seating the Indivision on the Lisa chip

    - Cleaning the pins of the Lisa chip with isopropyl alcohol

    - Connecting to a different monitor (same one that I use with the Indivision AGA MK3 in my A1200).

    - Tried both the SVGA output as well as HDMI

    - Verified that the ribbon cable is seated fully on both ends


    Neither monitor I tried recognizes that any signal is coming from the Indivision - they both go into power save mode.


    Close up photos of the installation and card are here:

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/3b3Jfe9szrJrX1xn7

    What else can I try in order to troubleshoot?

    Thank you for your help.

  • Hi Jens - thank you for your reply (and more importantly, thank you for so much great hardware for the Amiga!).

    I downloaded and wrote to floppy the install and rescue disk adfs (v1.10) from the wiki page:
    http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Indivision_AGA_MK3/doc

    Running the configuration tool reported "IndivisionAGAmk3 hardware not found. Continue?".

    I then restarted and booted from the rescue disk. It seemed to succeed and the power led flashed once repeatedly. Unfortunately the configuration tool still reports hardware not found and still no signal.

    I've added photos from the above to the same album.

    -Nathan

  • This seems like you haven't pushed it all the way down on the Lisa chip. The unit not being found by the rescue disk/config tool says that the most basic communication doesn't work.

  • Hi Jens, I have progress to report.

    New photo album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/smGfbBNQiUh1e1Uc7

    Today I reseated the Indivision once more and rather than manually swapping between a single monitor I hooked up the Indivision output to a second monitor.

    - Monitor 1 (Viewsonic): Amiga 4000 15kHz port
    - Monitor 2 (Digital): Indivision mk3 SVGA port

    This time around, with two monitors connected, I noticed that running the restore disk caused the Indivision to display output. :D

    [photos 1 and 2]

    After flashing I soft-reset the Amiga and the Indivision monitor remained on and I was able to use the IndivisionAGAmk3 tool.


    [photo 3]

    Unfortunately there's still an issue. Any time I power cycle the A4000 the Indivision monitor will remain on standby. If I run the IndivisionAGAmk3 program it reports "Hardware not found" as before.


    [photo 4]

    I found that if I run 'flashtool INFO' - then the Indivision monitor will come on and the Indivision control program will find the hardware again.

    [photos 5 and 6]

    -Nathan

  • I found that if I run 'flashtool INFO' - then the Indivision monitor will come on and the Indivision control program will find the hardware again.

    That means you have one of the rare cases where the FPGA does not start and requires a "kick" after whatever cause in the cold-start phase is gone. There are one or two threads in this forum where this happens on an A1200, but they are all outside Germany (I guess even outside Europe), and it doesn't make sense to send the boards here for investigation.


    I wrote a tiny tool that does a similar thing to "flashtool INFO", which you should also find in this forum. Your case is the first A4000 where this happens. Can you share some information about the whole setup, including everything that consumes power, possibly lights? What Power supply are you using?


    Jens

  • Very interesting.


    I have an Amiga 4000/040

    - Rev B motherboard

    - A3640 v3.1 CPU card

    - Chinon FZ-357A floppy drive

    - StarTech CompactFlash Card to IDE/SATA adapter, 32GB Sandisk CF card

    - No expansion cards installed.


    I have an album of photos I took for reference when recapping the motherboard, CPU board and power supply:

    https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzWzq3


    I normally run it with J212 set to PAL (this is originally an NTSC machine), but changing it back did not have an effect on the issue.


    The power supply is the original one - Skynet 391173-01, COM 915C-I. I took some voltage measurements from the top of the power connector going to the motherboard:


    Name Wire color Measurement
    PWR_OK brown 4.90V
    -12V red -12.20V
    +12V orange 11.93V
    +5V yellow 4.90V



    Do these voltages seem suspect or might they explain the problem of the FPGA starting?


    Any other information I can supply or things I can test?


    -Nathan

    Edit: I found the mk3reset tool on the Indivision ECS wiki and added it to the startup sequence as a temporary work-around. That page also mentions a PSU FAQ at http://wiki.icomp.de/w/index.php?title=PSU_FAQ&action=edit&redlink=1 but that link appears to be broken.

  • Hello

    I have the same issue with my indivision mk3 as well it only active the monitor some time, I got to power my a4000D off and on some times multi times before it actually switch the monitor on.

    it also reports no inivision mk3 found when i enter the config tool, but as soon i flash it the screen comes on but soon switch amiga off, then on again it does same thing monitor power on only some times and hardware not found again, even tho i have cleaned lisa chip, socket and re flowed same big components. same issue.

    thanks

    pete

  • Do these voltages seem suspect or might they explain the problem of the FPGA starting?

    4.9V is awfully close to the absolute minimum of 4.85V that should not be undercut, otherwise you risk 3.3V regulators to oscillate. With enough ripple and a slow ramp on cold-start, you may already have your culprit.

    That page also mentions a PSU FAQ at (broken link) but that link appears to be broken.

    Not sure how an "edit" link ended up in the text, but the link to the PSU FAQ is used lots of times on this forum :-).


    as soon i flash it the screen comes on but soon switch amiga off, then on again it does same thing monitor power on only some times and hardware not found again, even tho i have cleaned lisa chip, socket and re flowed same big components. same issue.

    Cleaning and re-flowing won't help - it's likely something in the cold-start phase of the power supply that keeps the FPGA from configuring correctly. Your best solution is the "MK3reset" tool as the first command in your startup sequence. If you're close to Germany and willing to let us inspect your machine to finally get an idea what's actually happening, happy to make shipping arrangements.

  • Cleaning and re-flowing won't help - it's likely something in the cold-start phase of the power supply that keeps the FPGA from configuring correctly. Your best solution is the "MK3reset" tool as the first command in your startup sequence. If you're close to Germany and willing to let us inspect your machine to finally get an idea what's actually happening, happy to make shipping arrangements.

    Here are my power voltages levels +5v = 5.01v +12v = 12.41v -12v = -11.92 P.G = 4.98v

    same voltage with either monitor power on or not, so not power supply issue,

    I am not in Germany, I am in United Kingdom,

    MK3rest tool? where is this to? as i have looked on the adf disk and the lha archive and no file on there with that name!

  • Here are my power voltages levels +5v = 5.01v +12v = 12.41v -12v = -11.92 P.G = 4.98v

    If you're showing two digits after toe comma - when is the last time your volt meter has been calibrated, and what type is it?


    Yes, this is somewhat a mocking comment, as I don't expect anyone to own a calibrated multimeter. The accuracy implied with the number of digits shown is insane, and usually not possible to achieve with the few-hundred-EUR multimeters that are available to the masses out there.


    Also, please do read what I wrote: Something is happening "in the startup phase", so this can't be measured with a multimeter. Instead, the power-up ramp must be recorded with a storage oscilloscope, triggering on the rising edge of the 5V lane, trigger level around 2V and maybe 10ms/div - that should fit the whole startup phase on a single scope screen.


    so not power supply issue,

    As outlined above, you cannot come to this conclusion with the measurements you've made. For further information, please also read our power supply FAQ.


    MK3rest tool? where is this to? as i have looked on the adf disk and the lha archive and no file on there with that name!

    We're still investigating the issue - with you being behind a particularly nasty customs border, I don't expect the machine to show up here with acceptable effort. In any case, your re-flashing attempts show that the flicker fixer comes up properly is you wake it up with a short "kick"; I have written a tool for that for a different customer, which you can download here:


    Individision AVA MK3 4000D/CD32 no signal at all


    Please put that tool at the top of your startup-sequence. It will wake up your flicker fixer on every reboot.

  • If you're showing two digits after toe comma - when is the last time your volt meter has been calibrated, and what type is it?


    Yes, this is somewhat a mocking comment, as I don't expect anyone to own a calibrated multimeter. The accuracy implied with the number of digits shown is insane, and usually not possible to achieve with the few-hundred-EUR multimeters that are available to the masses out there.


    Also, please do read what I wrote: Something is happening "in the startup phase", so this can't be measured with a multimeter. Instead, the power-up ramp must be recorded with a storage oscilloscope, triggering on the rising edge of the 5V lane, trigger level around 2V and maybe 10ms/div - that should fit the whole startup phase on a single scope screen.

    I only have a cheap multimeter nothing fancy,

  • We're still investigating the issue - with you being behind a particularly nasty customs border, I don't expect the machine to show up here with acceptable effort. In any case, your re-flashing attempts show that the flicker fixer comes up properly is you wake it up with a short "kick"; I have written a tool for that for a different customer, which you can download here:


    Please put that tool at the top of your startup-sequence. It will wake up your flicker fixer on every reboot.

    I have put this in my startup-sequence and monitor power up now, thank you for that.

  • FWIW, I used my oscilloscope to capture what is happening on my 4000.

    Setup: I connected the scope to one of the molex outputs of the power supply by sacrificing a berg to molex adapter and clipping the scope to the +5V (yellow) and ground (blue) wires. I double-checked (with power off) that there was continuity between the +5 on the motherboard and +5 on the molex (as well as ground).

    I (hopefully) set up the scope to trigger as you described. Screen captures and photos are here:
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/1rPDj4dbMSEPZ8xD7

    Please let me know if you want me to capture anything else or modify the settings. I don't have much opportunity to use my oscilloscope so please be patient with me if I've gotten any of it wrong. :)

  • Please upload pics to this thread, so they won't vanish magically when Google decides not to store the data any more.


    The 700µs rise time is impressive - that's some serious juice pumped in a short time. So the "very early" startup phase may not be the culprit. Can you zoom out and record what's happening in the 10-100ms after power up?

  • In parallel with the measurements of the original power supply I am also going to try out an ATX based power supply with adapter and see if it has any effect (and if it might raise the +5 rail away from the low end of the allowable range. I'll report back with how that goes.

  • While I generally recommend to stay away from ATX-adapters for BigBox Amigas (just had another case of broken parts in an A2000 where someone used a SeaSonic PSU), I'd be interested to see the result here, provided that you use an ATX PSU that has a dedicated DC-DC converter for each rail, especially the 5V rail.


    The reason why I recommend to avoid ATX is that the 5V rail is hardly ever the main regulation rail. This may result in wrong voltage (including overvoltage) or even oscillation, which will ultimately kill modern CMOS parts.

  • The last reply was more than 365 days ago, this thread is most likely obsolete. It is recommended to create a new thread instead.