​Indivision AGA MK3 50 hz

Caution: Non registered users only see threads and messages in the currently selected language, which is determined by their browser. Please create an account and log in to see all content by default. This is a limitation of the forum software.


Also users that are not logged in can not create new threads. This is a, unfortunately needed, counter measure against spam. Please create an account and log in to start new threads.

Don't Panic. Please wash hands.
  • Hi

    I have set up 1920x1080 @ 50Hz on the indivision AGA MK3 all working fine for normal PAL games

    My TV also supports 720x576 @ 50 Hz and 1280x720 @ 50 Hz, however I cant get any picture at these resolutions. Its probably the "porch" and "sync len" setting are incorrect. How do I calculate these?

    Also I noticed there were no 50Hz modes picked up by the EDID scan (they were all 60Hz). Any idea why that is?

    Im running 1.9 firmware.


    Thanks

  • How do I calculate these?

    Ideally, not at all. That's what EDID is for - and if your monitor does not "advertise" these modes through EDID, it is likely that it was spec'd by the product manager, but never implemented by the engineers - and this info never made it into the manual (wouldn't be the first time!).


    The config tool already does all the required calculation if you enter the values manually; just make sure that the values for horizontal and vertical frequency are within the specs of your TV. If you post your settings here, we may be able to spot an obvious error.

  • But xarynorm write 'his TV' and 720x576@50 Hz is a normal PAL Resolution (576i50 or 576p50).Also 1280x720 is a Standard Resolution in TV (ARD and ZDF will sen in 720p which is 1280x720p50Hz). So If he use HDMI (I know, the MK3 has no official HDMI Port), this Resolutions will be work. But I think, EDID was for Computer (PC) and there, this Resolutions was never used. This is the reason why its missing.

  • Presence/availability of one resolution does not mean that another resolution is available for that TV.


    The config tool has presets, also for 50Hz modes. Not sure if a 720p mode @50Hz is in there ( Timm knows). Again - please send a screenshot of the VGA settings, as there may be a simple error.

  • You are right, But 720p50/720p60/1080i50/1080i60 must working, if your TV has the HDready Logo. Also I think,576i50 and 480i60 must working (but here I am not sure) if the TV has the HD ready Logo, even the panel of the TV has a complitly differnet native resolution.


    Once again. I am speaking of an consumer TV, not of an Monitor with HDMI/DVI Input. And why EDID has to send resolutiosn, which are not used from any computer and every consumer device knows, that they are working?

  • must working, if your TV has the HDready Logo.

    Oh, really? To my knowledge, there is no entity that does technical tests. All you need to do to get that logo is to sign some paper and pay their license fees.


    You are right about these modes being in the HDMI specs, but with lack of a verifying entity, the logo is nothing you can rely on. The one thing that will be verified is if you paid your license fees. If you didn't, you're in legal trouble. That said, I believe that the technical personnel of the organisation is much smaller than the financial and legal personnel. Not compatible with my world view, hence no money from iComp.

    And why EDID has to send resolutiosn, which are not used from any computer and every consumer device knows, that they are working?

    Because the EDID signals are on the HDMI port. It has multiple levels where we're looking for screen modes - if I remember right, our config tool is exploring three levels deep. Once again, Timm will be able to tell if there are more levels where we may be able to dig for other screen modes, as I don't recall those technical details. Further, there's a huge difference between a standard progressive signal, and the V-Synced 50Hz signal that we're generating: We maintain sync with the host computer by inserting black lines, which is non-standard (see our documentation). Only the "auto resolution" modes are fully progressive without that added line "every now and then", but that's never fully compatible with the 50Hz modes of the HDMI specification.


    While we don't know if xarnynorm has ticked the "V-Sync" selector, that's all speculation.

  • 720x576@50 is not in the presets. On my HxMI TV I get this mode from EDID - but it doesn't give a picture:



    Also the resolution is too low to make a big deal of sense. These were the reasons why I didn't include it in the presets. 1280x720@50 from EDID does work - but it's in the presets also.


    We are pulling EDID mode descriptors from several banks of information ('standard', 'established', and 'detailed'), including extension blocks. Some devices deliver a huge bitfield of predefined modes, too, but they don't produce really useful new modes for our case, and they would all have to be stored in the config tool. The useful modes should be announced in the 'detailed' section, and the most useful modes are also in the presets, to be sure.

  • Jens

    You are right. there is no controll instance that will check if all of the spcifications of HD ready realy work. I will remember that Phillips has in the beginning very big problems with HDCP, even they have the Logo.

    Also, I am no expert what the EDID descriptor have all for Inforamtion. But Video was alltime a Kind of Hobby from me and I know from my life, there is a differnet beetween what has to do and what done. If the EDID will always work and are correct, why every device which I have used in the last years has a test function to test the resolution? I alwas don't know, if EDID are also used inside consumer electronic or only because HDMI is compatible to DVI.


    Timm

    Why is the resolution too low?

    This is the Standard PAL resolution. So It makes sense to use this for LowRes and HighRes (Not for LowRes Interlaces and HighRes Interlaced) because the Upscaler in the TV knows this Resolution and can fit it to the native Resolution of the Panel (OK, some TV will stretch it to 16:9 and that looks horrable).

    The only Idea I have, why it will not work is, that the EDID Information maybe wrong. it Means 720x576i50 and you will send 720x576p50.

    Interessting for me is, that if I look in the englisch Wikipedia for EDID, there is NO Preset for 576i fir 720x576@50 (Interlaced). Only for 720x576@50 progressiv. But I know, that I can send interlaced signals over HDMI.

  • Thanks for your replies.


    I will give up on 720x576 @ 50 Hz its not working with above settings, and it has been advised the resolution is too low anyway.

    So I will move onto 1280x720@50.

    Im on version 1.9 of the software but this resolution is not in my presets, and it is not picked up by the edid scan. Would someone kindly post the settings for 1280x720@50 please.


    I am using an 4k TV via HDMI, EDID attached (extracted using a PC)


    Thanks

  • 720 pixels wide is less than the full overscan of an ECS computer. I am totally with Timm that this is not useful for an Amiga.

    OK, you are right that PAL in DVB Standard has also 768x576 Pixel, which the AMIGA can also use in Oversan mode. But which Resolution most of the Games (or Demos) have? 320x200/320x256. Maybe 640x200/640x256. Overscan was only use an Workbench and here we have with the MK3 the SuperHires Mode. But for Games 576i with a Resolution of 720x576 is (in my humble opinion) is enough. The Benefit is, that such an Resolution will be Zoom from the TV without Black Bars in Top and in Button.


    The Main Problem is that 576p50 will maybe not Work with the TV (in SDTV it was not a standard) and 720x576p25 has a to low Framrate. With 720x576i50 it will work (SDTV Standard) but this Resolution will only Work in the Non Interlaced Amiga Modes without Flicker.


    @xarynorm

    I Think, the Problem is, that the MK3 will give out 50 Full Frames. The HDMI Port will maybe only Accept 50 Interlaced Frames or 25 Full Frames with this Low Resolution. Maybe, you can reduced the HFreq to 15 KHz (Original PAL) but as I wrote above, this such a low Frequence you can only use the Low Resoltions without Flicker (and I don't know if you can reduce the HFreq so much with the MK3 because the Main Function is the remove the Flickr and convert Interlace to Progressive. Maybe it is much easy to use the Standard Scart Cable.

  • Overscan was only use an Workbench and here we have with the MK3 the SuperHires Mode. But for Games 576i with a Resolution of 720x576 is (in my humble opinion) is enough.

    Trouble ius that you can't clearly define where the overscan area stops and the standard pixel area starts. There's myriads of games and demos that set display start/stop differently, so there is no universal starting point. You always need to take overscan into account just because of that.


    Also, I don't really get the point of you jumping into this discussion, especially now that it's drifting into a meta-discussion of interlaced HDMI modes, which are not supported by our hardware. Please keep in mind that xarynorm had a problem, and the primary goal here is to solve that to his satisfaction.

  • I got it working at 1280x720@50. I loaded in a new default.conf file, and rescanned EDID. Now 1280x720@50 is there both as EDID, and preset.

    Something was wrong with my old config.

    All working fine @ 1280x720@50.

  • Jens

    Thank you for the Information that you not know which Pixels inside the Pixelrange (768x576) are active.

    I have reread from there the difference of the PAL Resolutions comes (768, 720, 704) and the main Problem is the PAR. And this is with the Amiga 1 (Square) and not 1,0667/1,904 (Non Square) which comes from changing from analog to digital in the Video technology (learned something again).

    The main problem was, that I have ignored that the MK3 is a FlickerFixer which will convert the video out of the AMIGA to Signals which modern Monitors will understand and not only a converter AMIGA2HDMI (like the RGB2HDMI Project with the Rasberry where I would be interested to know how they solved the PAR problem).

  • I am very sorry for that presets are only visible in the defaults and subsequently overridden with your configuration.

    So, if you created the configuration with an older version of the program in which a given preset wasn't present, it's not visible later (unless you use 'Reset to Defaults' for inspection. You can use 'Last Saved' to restore the configuration.)