KIM-1 Core anybody?

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Don't Panic. Please wash hands.
  • Requiring a Silversurfer sounds not like a good choice. I guess the best way of approaching this is to write a core that shows the 7-segment displays on the VGA output - and if you want to stretch it, show these digits on the C64 screen in case it's in cartridge mode.


    Audio jack as tape IO won't be possible. Output yes, but input would have to be something else - either emulation (making the core more complicated), or a piece of hardware that accepts input from a portable tape player, MP3 player or sound card output of a computer.


    64k of RAM might be stretching it - definitely possible with the hardware of the Chameleon, but not useful, as the original never had that kind of memory. I believe even the 8K RAM of the replica that you've linked to is an expansion to the original, isn't it?

  • Audio jack is output only. So you could "SAVE" your program, but loading it back in might be slightly problematic.

    Ignoring that problem for a bit the 6532 and 6502 are also in my 2600 core. So yes certainly possible to get that implemented without too much trouble, but personally don't see the really the point though, with so many other 6502 based cores already available.

  • Thanks for your thoughts.

    The KIM-1 should imo be preserved, as it was the first real affordable homecomputer. Emulation is no option, I could emulate a c64 also, that could emulate the KIM-1.

    The original KIM-1 had two input methods. One was the serial connection and one the 23 buttons to type some basic things direct to memory.

    I did not think about the missing audio input, but loading and saving over the serial connection is possible. You can easily load Papertape files for example via 232 (thats why the silversurfer is helpful)

    As soon as the KIM was available back in '75 there were RAM upgrades, up to 32 kb. To run MS Basic for example 16K is needed.


    Well, maybe someone feels called to do it.

    nils

  • Yeah I understand it from the "preservation" point of view. And I guess the system itself isn't that much work as it is mostly connecting blocks I already have on my harddrive. I think the biggest amount of new stuff would be to emulate the 7 seg displays so they are shown on the both the VGA and C64 screen (in cartridge mode).

    However silversurfer as mass storage would mean a secondary computer of some sort, which is a bit meh.. To make it useful for more users would be the option to save to sdcard. And that basically the hurdle for a lot of those niche ports. I ran into the same issues with the vic20 and vcs2600 that there isn't a equivalent for the menu system like the one that has been developed for the main core. Although for vic20 you could connect a external drive I guess, but an emulated one would be better and make the core so much more useful. So that basically stops me from spending a evening or two to hack a kim together from random building blocks on my harddrive. Like ok, what to do with once build, it if I can't load any software.... Actually is there any software for the kim-1 available? Or was it mostly used to make your own stuff?

  • I'm just digging into this.

    There seems to have been a huge community back in the late 70s. Some of the self produced magazines are scanned and available as pdf. For example "De KIM Kenner" http://retro.hansotten.nl/6502-sbc/kim-6502-up-kenner/

    And then there were some higher programming languages: http://retro.hansotten.nl/6502…-software/kim-1-software/

    The beginners guide "First book of KIM" also shared some small programs: https://github.com/jefftranter…m/KIM-1/TheFirstBookOfKIM

    But there is sadly no huge collection preserved. The hobbyist stuff seems to be lost in the trashbins.


    Nowadays as in most cases 6502 crossassemblers do the job. Here is one with papertape output: https://www.aartbik.com/retro.php


    nils

  • I believe that *if* we make a KIM-1 core, it should be "as simple as possible", not requiring extra hardware (so no Silversurfer).


    The most obvious path for "injecting" software (at least for me) would be the USB port. We have ChaCo, which can already "poke" into a running C64. Something similar could be made with tapes: My guess is that KIM-1 tapes can be sampled with a sound card, processed in a high-level language and transferred to a possible KIM-1 core. A similar kind of pre-processing could be done to "papertape outputs", so no RS232 interface, no actual papertape, just a kind-of-imagefile that is sent to the Chameleon, where the KIM-1 core could pick it up.


    Once again, this is not an actual plan. Peter and Tobias have a lot of other things to do, and I currently don't see a free spot where this would fit in.

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