Indivision ECS v2 integer scaling and 1280x1024

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Don't Panic. Please wash hands.
  • I have an ECS v2 in an A2000. I've had many merry challenges with getting it configured, most of which related to a Vizio 1920x1080p TV which really was picky and basically unfriendly. I switched to an 800x600 TV I had around, and things worked fine with that. I picked up a 1280x1024 monitor today, because I want to get integer scaling of the pixels, no interpolation. 1280=640*2, and 1024=512*2, so in (my) theory, PAL mode should be workable with integer scaling, and no blurry pixels.


    BUT... it's not doing what I think it should be doing, and I'm not sure why. (and yes, I have read that v2 doc like 50 times, hehe. You do fun stuff when you have only black screen, and no way to get video out, including using the old 'say' command as a kind of printf)


    OS: 3.1.4

    firmware: 2.5 (11/20 version)


    First off: i'm not getting black screens, I always get a screen.

    But in all tests, it won't use the "Pre 1280x1024" VGA mode. It will show (in the overlay) a 1024x768 mode is being used.


    I've tried NTSC and PAL modes, and have reduced overscan to 640x200 / 640x256, thinking that having anything more than 256 lines is going to make it scale up to more than 1024, and thus force it or maybe the monitor to start interpolating pixels. But I'm not convinced I understand how overscan works.


    test indivision mode 1:

    min: 200, max 243. current: 242. Now why is it 242, if NTSC is 640x200, and I have reduced text and graphics overscan to 640x200?

    VGA mode selected: Pre 1280x1024 60hz

    VGA mode shown in overlay in testing (with NTSC: his res laced selected): 1024x768


    Test indivision mode 2: pre 640x512 PAL

    min: 286, max: 287, current 242 (in NTSC at the moment)


    Anyway... does anyone have a ScreenMode/Overscan/Indivision config combination that would do what I want, which is 1280x1024 integer scaled workbench?

  • But in all tests, it won't use the "Pre 1280x1024" VGA mode. It will show (in the overlay) a 1024x768 mode is being used.

    Looks like chapter 4 ("Basic concepts") didn't really reach you - or you're not looking at the "mode is active/will be applied" line in the status of the config tool. I guess it's best if you upload your config, then Timm can take a look at what may be wrong.


    Now why is it 242, if NTSC is 640x200,

    The basic NTSC screen has 525 lines, divided into a short frame of 262 lines and a long frame of 263 lines. If the min setting is 200 and the max setting is 243, then the mode you're choosing will never be applied, as the flicker fixer cannot make a difference between actually-used graphics area and additional lines at the top and bottom that only show background colour. It will always count all lines. This is the first part you should fix: Either use the factory default selection criteria of NTSC, or edit the one you're trying to change to be min 262, max 263 - this will safely trigger on NTSC.

    Test indivision mode 2: pre 640x512 PAL

    min: 286, max: 287, current 242 (in NTSC at the moment)

    Same here: THis will not trigger on a PAL screen mode, because the number of lines is nowhere near one of the number of lines of a PAL frame. PAL has a basic height of 625 lines, divided into a short frame of 312 lines and a long frame of 313 lines. If you want a setting to trigger on PAL, you should set min lines = 312, max lines=313.


    That said, the "current" number of lines of 242 hints at patches in your system that alter the NTSC screen mode. If your WB installation contains a patched screen mode (some flicker fixer vendors supplied such altered versions in order to reach better monitor compatibility), then please replace the screen mode files with the virgin ones from your installation disk.

  • Sorry Jens, on ECSv2 we're counting differently than on AGAmk3.

    On ECSv2 it's usually Min. Lines 286, Max. Lines 287 that selects a mode for a PAL screen.

  • Anyway... does anyone have a ScreenMode/Overscan/Indivision config combination that would do what I want, which is 1280x1024 integer scaled workbench?

    In theory the very first Indivision mode from the preset list, "Pre 640x512 PAL" should do just that, as it uses the VGA mode "Pre 1280x1024 VESA". But by default it's deactivated and wouldn't be selected. A double-click on the mode or unchecking the "Disabled" checkmark, and it should do. Please test the mode before using "Test/Adjust".

  • Sorry it took a while to get back. Had some "old computer" problems there.


    I chucked the old config and started again. This solves the "it never gets to 1280x1024 mode" issue, but it feels very blurry/ghosty. Not sure how to describe it. Looking at it close up through a phone camera, it looks like some anti-aliasing/interpolation stuff going on, which is what I'm trying to avoid.


    I am attaching the current config file. I also took some snaps with the phone, to show on a pixel level what I'm seeing. This monitor is new to me (but not new!), so I'm not that familiar with it, but it seems to regularly display an OSD message about auto-adjusting, when the Amiga switches resolutions. So I'm not sure if the monitor is to blame here, or my config, or something else. If I have to hunt down a different monitor for the integer scaling, I'm happy to do that.


    So what I was trying to explain is this:

    - assume a PAL resolution, laced, 640x512.

    - overscan shows:

    - min size, text size, graphics size: 640x256

    - maximum size: 724x283

    - physical screen resolution 1280x1024


    Is the screen still going to end up getting scaled? Because 724x566x2 is greater than 1280x1024, so monitor scales it? OTOH, you can see from the pic that the monitor doesn't really display any overscan in WB. But it looks like scaling?


    In a 320x200 game, the overscan appears to be shown, because the "main" part of the screen is always shifted down and left from the upper/left corner, with the right part of the screen cut off. In 320x200 mode, it doesn't look ghosty/blurry/fuzzy to me. I'd love that same crispness at the 640x400 sizes.


    IndivisionECSv2.conf.txt

  • This ghosting issue has been discussed a lot in this forum - it's worse on certain monitors (mainly those with Samsung gutts) and it gets better if you choose an output mode with lower pixel clock.


    I did plan to make a patch-board that chenges the output stage, as this may be a result of the frequency-limiting for passing CE. With all the turmoil of shipping restrictions to Britain/Ireland, Brexit stuff, VAT change and year-end/fiscal-year-start, I just didn't get around to doing that on the days that I originally planned this.


    So the only thing you can currently do is to reduce the ouput pixel clock.

  • I acquired a Dell 2001FP, switched from A2000 to A3000, and also swapped in a thicker (computer-to-monitor) RGB cable. Something in there seems to have diminished the ghosting a bit. Not perfect, but better. (and a ton better of course than native A3000 VGA output)