Indivision AGA Mk3 + A1200 2B = heat problems?

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Don't Panic. Please wash hands.
  • Greetings,

    Finally got my Indy mk3 yesterday, installed it but...after a while I started getting "analog noise" on the HDMI output - looks like random color waves. At first a few glitchy lines, then the upper half of the screen, then an entire display was all noisy. Turned out it's related to Lisa getting hot - as soon as I start blowing at it or waving a piece of paper at it - analog noise goes away. I suspect it's either the thermal expansion issue, that causes the bad contact between the Indivision and Lisa, or maybe Lisa itself doesn't like heat that much, I'm not sure. Seeing that the Indy doesn't have any mount holes, attaching a fan might prove difficult :-\ Has anyone been having similar problems?

  • Do you need to flash the MK3 even if you dont have these problems?

    Yes, I generally recommend to use the latest core and the latest config tool. We have done major improvements in multiple parts of the software and core, and if you didn't have problems until now, you just happen to have a machine similar to the ones we have used during development and testing. Rest assured that we continue to use these machines to test all changes and improvements we're doing, so your machine will remain compatible, as it's obviously similar to our main test/development machines.

  • Let's hope the fan has sufficient filtering - my guess is that it's a BLDC motor, so there's surely going to be switching noise on the supply line. You might want to think about inserting a ferrite bead and adding a capacitor to reduce any supply line noise from the fan.

  • A capacitor alone won't be very effective keeping HF noise from entering the system. I'd choose a combination of ferrite bead (or wire-wound coil for lower-frequency noise) and a low-esr (ideally ceramic) capacitor to reduce that kind of noise (1st order filter vs. 2nd order filter). As for calculations, you need numbers to work with, so you need to measure in what frequency band the noise is located in, then you can choose components.

  • The latest firmware for sure helps. But for me this hasn't solved it entirely. After some time, say 15-20 minutes, I start to have problems with the screen going black for a second. The longer it runs, the more frequently it happens. I have removed the top of the case, but I still have problems. Even on cooler days. When I touch the MK3, it is really hot. It is barely possible to keep your finger on the board itself. This heat radiates out through the amiga's motherboard. This isn't really good for the Amiga.


    My feeling is that I should put a heat-sink of some kind on the MK3 to let it dissipate the heat. Better through a heat sink than through the Amiga's motherboard.

  • ronybeck Heat of the flicker fixer is not the problem - it's timing shifts that happen within the Amiga when it warms up. These also happened with the IndivisioN AGA MK2 and MK2cr, but weren't that appearent, as we didn't have the level of direct software communication (configtool could only save to flash, but not communicate with the FPGA directly), and most of all, we ddn't use the Amiga's clock to also run the output part on (for example the auto resolution modes). This all bears new challenges, given that many Amigas are equipped with different chip set revisions and different components that also cause clock shifts.


    Radiated heat is certainly not a problem, as a) radiation is quite low given temperatures well below 70 degrees, and b) it radiates to Budgie, which is not sensitive at all. So while I agree that your observation points to heat of the flicker fixer being the problem, the actual cause is somewhere else and only coincides with the heat of the flicker fixer. The timing simulations of the FPGA show that temperatures up to 80 degrees Celsius are acceptable without on-ship timing being off. However, with Amiga clocks shifting beyond certain points, there's more on the digital side that we need to do.


    We are on the problem, and there will of course be updates in the near future. Peter is currently on holiday, but indicated that he's going to look into the project this week, interrupting his holidays to shorten the wait for customers like you.

  • Hey Jens and team, figured I'd throw my experience into this thread regarding my 2B.


    Currently have it installed after a full clean and wipe down of Lisa, First time firm click no install issues.


    Firmware flashed and the MK3 is showing 20200824.


    Working perfectly with no sudden blackouts on my Samsung HDTV.


    1200 Revision 2B recapped by Amiga Passion along with timing fix.

    8GB Sandisk Extreme III CF Hard drive.

    Kickstart 3.1.4.

    ACA1221 @ 28.4Mhz + 64MB.

    Meanwell RT-50B Power supply.


      


       


    However after around 15 mins of the amiga being on I get random Guru messages when opening files or launching programs.



    If while this is happening I reboot and attempt to change any display settings using IndivisionAGAmk3 then the system hangs with a yellow screen and reboots or it will allow testing in different modes once or twice before hanging or giving the error that there is a software error and I need to wait for disk activity to finish.


    The MK3 is very hot to the touch and I'm unable to replicate any of these issues when I have a fan blowing air at the MK3 by means of a hair dryer on the cool setting ^^


    Wondered what you would recommend as it's rock solid if kept cool.


    Thanks!

  • However after around 15 mins of the amiga being on I get random Guru messages when opening files or launching programs.

    Get rid of that MeanWell PSU. It's known-bad. I know many people are using them, but they are not suitable for an Amiga. It probably fails now that more load is in the system, and overclocking the ACA1221 does not work any more. Remember that the ACA1221 is a 17MHz card - my guess is that you get rid of the crashes if you reduce to 17MHz.


    As esplained a number of times already, there is no "heat issue" with Indivision AGA MK3 - it's fine for up to 80 degrees Celsius, which is not reached even without a fan and a closed case. However, power consumption does change with higher temperature, and the MeanWell PSU ist just not up to the task.

  • I had the same problem (also Rev 2b mobo) this week with the Guru’s and sometimes freezing. Since Friday I use CA-PSU and never had a Guru or a freezing problem since than.
    I wrote this on another thread somewhere in this Indivision forum... many problems can be solved with a good PSU.

    A1200 rev2B // SanDisk CF64GB HDD // Blizzard 1230 IV 64MB // Indivision AGA MK3 // CA-PSU // BenQ BL702a // Bose Companion 2 series III

  • Get rid of that MeanWell PSU. It's known-bad. - my guess is that you get rid of the crashes if you reduce to 17MHz.

    Thank you so much for the time taken in replying and your support! As soon as I ran the ACA1221 at 17MHz all was well and the system having less power draw was stable. MeanWell is going after watching your Twitch stream explaining the need for a reliable PSU.


    I had the same problem (also Rev 2b mobo) this week with the Guru’s and sometimes freezing. Since Friday I use CA-PSU and never had a Guru or a freezing problem since than.
    I wrote this on another thread somewhere in this Indivision forum... many problems can be solved with a good PSU.


    I have ordered the incredible CA-PSU and will be using this instead of the MeanWell in my beloved 1200 going forward.


    Can't thank you enough!

  • These problems are alrady solved - it's not an actual thermal problem, but a timing problem that gets worse with some Amigas getting warmer. Please download the latest config tool, select "flash firmware" from the drop-down menu and these problems will be gone.


    http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Indivision_AGA_MK3/doc

    Next time im am testing my setups i should take a look into the forum first :P.

    I had trouble with my mk3 as well using it inside my Amiga 2b and first thought it was a heat problem due to the reason that the screen had glitches after getting warmer and somehow the screen disappeared after a while (around 30 minutes).

    After a while of checking i tested another of my 1200s which had rev. 1D and there was no error even after hours of AGA-Demos and the mk3 and Lisa getting hot.


    Both of 'em had the ACA1233n-40 in it to be sure it was no problem with the hardware.


    I bought the mk3 on the 2020-08-16 and i guess i have to apply the new firmware as well?

  • I bought the mk3 on the 2020-08-16 and i guess i have to apply the new firmware as well?

    Yes - we've only started delivering new units with the new firmware last week. All you need to do is to download the latest config tool from the Wiki and select the "flash firmware" item from the drop-down menu: Select the config tool's window, then press+hold right mouse button, then hover to the top bar of the screen and release the right mouse button on the "flash firmware" menu item. You'll lose the screen for a few seconds, and when it comes back, the update is already done.

  • Yes - we've only started delivering new units with the new firmware last week. All you need to do is to download the latest config tool from the Wiki and select the "flash firmware" item from the drop-down menu: Select the config tool's window, then press+hold right mouse button, then hover to the top bar of the screen and release the right mouse button on the "flash firmware" menu item. You'll lose the screen for a few seconds, and when it comes back, the update is already done.

    Awesome, i am going to test it asap.

    Thx a lot for your quick reply.

  • Get rid of that MeanWell PSU. It's known-bad. The ACA1221 is a 17MHz card - my guess is that you get rid of the crashes if you reduce to 17MHz. The MeanWell PSU is just not up to the task.

    Just an update now I have my CA-PSU - No issues whatsoever running the MK3 and ACA1221 clocked to 28MHz


    Thanks for producing a much needed product to keep our beloved kit safe for years to come.